Kindergarten update from DOE
Parents have been asking how the kindergarten placement process works; we asked the DOE for details — and why they advised families to “wait until September” for possible placements at local schools.
Zoned schools fill their seats drawing from the applications they receive before the March 6 deadline, says Andy Jacob of the Department of Education. (This is a change from years past, when schools accepted students on a first-come, first-served basis, or based on pre-K enrollment.) If more children apply than the school has seats, a lottery should be held; some students will receive placement offers, and others will be wait-listed. There is no ‘rank’ or priority of any kind on wait lists, Jacob says. As seats open over the spring and summer, as families move, opt for other schools or opt out of public schools — families are notified. “We simply don’t have a really solid grasp on seats that are available until September,” Jacob said, which is why he advises watchful waiting. (The DOE also doesn’t know the total number of kindergarten applications citywide. It’s up to individual schools to count the applications they receive.)
All zoned schools reserve some seats for the inevitable September arrivals. The number of seats they save depends on past years’ enrollment and prior experience with latecomers. But not every family who moves into a zone can get a seat at their zoned school of choice. Jacob says, “we guarantee a kindergarten seat, but we don’t guarantee a seat at your top school.”
Some families have received offers from two schools while others have received no offers. Because each school administers its own admissions process, it’s possible for a single child to receive more than one offer. Families can ask to be placed on their zoned school’s wait list even if they’ve been offered a seat at another school. According to Jacob, they do not forfeit the wait-list spot if they accept placement at another school.
In a zoned school that has more applications than available seats, capping the number of kindergarten classes the school will have is a last resort, says Jacob, and isn’t undertaken casually. The DOE will first ask a zoned school if another class can be opened, or if classes are already filled to the UFT contractual maximum. “There are lots of steps before capping,” says Jacob, and a school can’t elect to cap its classes independently. “The school has to accept zoned students unless a capping plan is worked out by the DOE,” says Jacob. Timing-wise, decisions are made right up to the start of the new school year, which is why the waiting game takes so long. Families whose children applied to but aren’t placed at their zoned school are “offered different options nearby,” says Jacob. Accepting a seat doesn’t mean giving up access; “they have the right to return,” he says, if and when seats open up at their zoned school.
“This is nothing new,” Jacob said. “It’s something we’re used to dealing with every year.” What’s “routine” to the DOE is vitally new to plenty of local families who report frustration and disappointment with the kindergarten admissions process. We’ll continue to ask questions, and we look forward to bringing you answers.
Update: Andy Jacob asked that we clarify two points above: First, regarding wait lists at zoned schools, enrollment priority goes in the order established by DOE on the initial application — siblings of current students who live in the zone (who are rarely, if ever, wait-listed), students who live in the zone , siblings who live outside of the zone, and, finally, out-of-zone kids. Within those subgroups, applications are not ranked in any particular order. That means that all zoned kids on the wait list are in the same pool, and that, as seats open, applications are randomly selected from that pool (once siblings have been accommodated). So you can’t be first, or last, on the wait list, but rather you are part of a group of wait-listed students.
Second, Jacob would like to emphasize that DOE will place all students in kindergarten classes — although there’s no guarantee of a placement at every family’s zoned school. He says that in some cases, families may be offered more than one alternative to their zoned school, in an effort to find a good fit between the child, the family, and the school.
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Unfortunately, though, it doesn’t answer my question. How is the lottery process done? Also, it raises a new question – they purposely leave spots open in case someone shows up in September, but for me, someone who has lived in the neighborhood for years, I don’t have priority?
Finally, he indicates I am guaranteed a spot, but that’s not how the letter reads. The letter reads, I do not have a spot, and I am waitlisted. No other information except that I can contact the parent/teacher coordinator. What will she tell me if Jacob can’t tell me anything? I don’t even know how many people are waitlisted at my school. Why is that a secret?
Moreover, the DOE website simply reminds me that kindergarten is not “mandatory”. What does that mean? Does that mean that I don’t have to go, or they don’t have to provide a spot for me? What about no child left behind legislation? What does that address? So, am I guaranteed a spot or not?
I pre-registered at other neighborhood schools, that basically laughed at me. They are waitlisted too, so where exactly, will I be guaranteed a spot? Should I send my tax money there?
Again, these answers are non-answers.
Comment by confusedbynycdoemom — March 25, 2009 @ 11:02 am
Mr. Jacobs was, I believe, the one who commented to the NY Times yesterday about enrollment numbers for next year. As he said, PS87 already has 200 applications in from zoned families for 175 seats next year. How will that school manage what amounts to an extra classroom? And even then, the number does not even take into account the families who will, this year, move into two large buildings full of family style apartments nearing completion. I am a PS87 parent who hopes to have a younger child enter there in the future. The DOE language about lotteries and capping and ‘adding additional classrooms’ is maddeningly vague. I imagine that parents zoned for 199, 163 and other crowded schools feel the same. How much can zoned schools be asked to bear before DOE sinks successful programs? How many K classes are they prepared to jam in and what will they do with the ‘extra’ kids when all the nearby schools are full?
Comment by anni — March 25, 2009 @ 11:55 am
Mr. Jacobs says to wait until September. Exactly when in September. I need to know what neighborhood school my child is going to attend BEFORE the 1st day of school. It sounds like the DOE is tell us wait until after school starts and we’ll see how many kids don’t show. My child is entering Kindergarten and cannot afford to miss the first day(s) of school when all of the other children are getting comfortable and making new friends.
Comment by al — March 25, 2009 @ 12:05 pm
Welcome to DOE speak!
The DOE spokesman is not clear about the process. The policy of holding back seats for late registration only would impact an out of zone child. Schools will hold seats for the usual flood of zoned late registrants rather give that seat to an out of zone child.
No zoned school saves seats if they have a zoned child to fill it.If you are a zoned parent and have been put on a waiting list then that school does not have any spots. They are not holding seats. Don’t take my word for it ask a parent coordinator.
What DOE is trying to tell you or actually sell to you is your child will have a spot,just wait till septemeber. In reality you may have a spot but who knows where it is going to be. DOE certainly does not. They hope it is going to be in your zoned school but how do they know there is going to be room? If you live on the upper east side I can tell you there is no room
They want you to beleive that admissions to GNT and private school will open up seats. Perhaps that may be true but if you read today’s Crains you will see there is no rooom in private schools either. http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20090322/FREE/303229961. According to the article the population growth is staggereing, “From 2000 to 2007, the number of children under 5 living in Manhattan rose by more than 32%, according to census data.” How many K seats has been added by DOE to keep pace with this growth? In the UES it is zero!
DOE says there “…the inevitable September arrivals”. If the schools are filled now where are these kidsgoing to go to school?
Instead of providing seats DOE waits. The lack of action on the part of DOE is why your child has been wait-listed. My suggestion to you is not to wait, certainly do not wait for DOE. Join up with one of the many groups that are demanding the city add more seats for Septmeber. If you live in the UES join with the central community action group or parents leaders of upper east side schools. THen write letters to your local officials. Do not stop writing until the city adds enough seats in your part of the city.
Comment by Annoyed Upper Eastsider — March 25, 2009 @ 1:23 pm
I would guess citywide there are enough seats, the problem is there are not enough seats in the schools that are “desirable.” And, of course, the competition increases because new developments are built in the “desirable” school zones. At least that is the problem in Park Slope.
So, Mr. Klein, get rid of the bad principals so that people actually want to go to their zoned schools! Enforce the residency rules, so that the people with fake addresses aren’t getting seats ahead of people who actually live in the zone!
Comment by marge — March 25, 2009 @ 8:10 pm
If we have not received a kindergarten offer, can we still apply to schools? I was just on the DOE website and this is what I am understanding….
Comment by Sue Tsang — March 26, 2009 @ 9:15 am
I understand and have experienced the frustration of this maddening process with 2 of my kids. And I have to go at it again in a couple of yrs! I agree with all of Marge’s comments. There will also be a need for new schools to accommodate the increased influx. Also, I wonder just how serious is this problem of parents using faking addresses and other documents? Remember, parents with fake documentation could be enrolling multiple kids at a particular school! They should really look into these statistics. I think with all of the negative attention the DOE’s enrollment process is receiving this year, it should be heading for an inevitable overhaul…
Comment by Nicky — March 26, 2009 @ 10:11 am
With regard to this statement:
“That means that all zoned kids on the wait list are in the same pool, and that, as seats open, applications are randomly selected from that pool (once siblings have been accommodated). So you can’t be first, or last, on the wait list, but rather you are part of a group of wait-listed students.”
The DOE better tell the schools this because some schools with wait lists are telling parents they rank on the wait list. Also the DOE says the K admissions are centralized this year – that is so not true – every school seems to be doing its own thing.
Comment by CBB — March 26, 2009 @ 10:53 am
This is mental anguish. Have not received an assigment letter as of 3/26. As a parent living in a less desired zoned school and having a child in a CTT program in another non-zoned school. I am devastated to image that my children will be in two separate schools. Children with any kind of special needs cannot be moved around, and they should be able to accomodate the incoming siblings regardless of zoning. I liked the centralized process much better than this. Why change the policies when they are not able to accommodate parent’s choices.
Comment by Anonymous — March 26, 2009 @ 3:10 pm
“The DOE also doesn’t know the total number of kindergarten applications citywide. It’s up to individual schools to count the applications they receive”
no wonder its a mess, the DOE has no clue how many kids they are trying to place. No wonder schools are crowded and that it has taken years for them to replace ps 151. They never bothered to find out how many kids they were ignoring until the nearby schools reached critical mass.
Comment by dd — March 27, 2009 @ 5:04 pm
I would disagree with the line: “All zoned schools reserve some seats for the inevitable September arrivals.” While our school probably used to be able to do that, I can’t imagine how that can be said for ’09 onward, when we will already have added classrooms and expanded as far as we can.
Comment by anni — March 27, 2009 @ 9:24 pm
So, I made my application to my child’s zoned school at 9am on day 1 of the pre-registration process in january and today received a waitlist letter. My child ranks second in priority as zoned without sibling. Btw- I have another child that will be applying to Kindergarten at the same zoned school next year. I did not apply to any other schools other than my zoned school, and as of now have no general education placement for my child. As I recall the DOE directions did not require parents to apply to more than one school as a contingency, so I did not feel compelled to apply to schools outside my zone.
During pre-registration at the school I was asked for my child’s IEP as my child is also a candidate for a special services CTT class next year. Placement decisions for CTT are made at the DOE level,not the individual school level as is the case for general education placements. When I provided the IEP to the school in January, the official told me in guarded fashion that my child may not receive a CTT placement at the school as CTT decisions are made by the DOE. I informed the official that I understood that, but also understood that collection of IEP at pre-registration was solely for general education placement purposes and providing the IEP documentation would not be counted against my child for a general education placement at my zoned school. As of today, the DOE has not rendered a decision on whether my child is eligible for CTT, so I also do not have a CTT placement. That decision will not come until mid to late April, at best.
Fast forward to today’s waitlist letter, I called a zoned-school official for an explanation and the official told me that the IEP did not factor into the school’s general ed placement decision. How can I be sure of this given that the official was so vague in explaining their process to me? The official would not even give me a percentage for how many zoned families in priority two were placed on the waitlist, let alone confirm whether my child’s IEP factored into their decision making.
Does anyone have any guidance for what if anything can be done today to apply and obtain a general education placement for this Fall should my child be ineligible for a CTT class and require a general education placement at another school? I find it difficult to follow the zoned-school official’s advice to be patient until September. Is the DOE expecting to re-open the application process for displaced zoned families? How is it that the DOE did not contemplate this as a potential risk to zoned families, and require zoned families to apply to more than just their zoned schools?
Comment by Anon2 — March 30, 2009 @ 9:14 pm
As of 3/31, we’ve been notified via phone of our daughter’s admission to our zoned school and received a waitlist letter from one unzoned school. No response from the other 4 public schools we submitted applications to.
Comment by Roger — March 31, 2009 @ 8:59 am
How could they possibly count the K applications? They encouraged everyone to “apply” for K everywhere. Duplications and double work for parents and the bureaucrats. Bravo.
Comment by mary beth — March 31, 2009 @ 8:32 pm
Bravo, indeed. There is no merit to a process that would displace zoned families that have lived in their zone for many years. Zoned families with numerous years in their zone should have every expectation to have guaranteed admission to their zoned school. A process that permits multiple offers to be conveyed to one family, and leaves zoned familiies with no offers is highly inequitable and a selfish act on the part of the families that take advantage of it (see Roger- Comment no. 13 above). Why stop at 5 schools???
Comment by dylan — April 2, 2009 @ 9:46 pm
This Sunday’s NYT article featuring parents that shamelessly misrepresent their residence to get their children into favored public schools that they are clearly not zoned for underscores the greed and elitism that got the economy into the mess it’s in. The NYT interviewed a father that admitted he had purchased a $1.6 million six-room apartment 1.5 years ago with dreams of sending his “really smart kid” into his “alma mater, a prestigious private school”, and that he is now “prepared to do whatever it takes to get his son into a preferred [public] kindergarten.” This father chose to remain anonymous, probably a good move compared with other parents that provided their names admitting that they were planning to fake zoned residences or take on a second residence in a favored zone for so long as they needed to prove residency. Not sure how families that do this live with themselves. The DOE must do a better job of placing zoned families that have long-established legitimate residency in their zone. Legitimately, long-standing zoned families are entitled to placement above these illegitimate applicants that view even a great public school as their last resort. This scam underscores the need for the DOE to incorporate length of residency criteria into their zoning priorities. Disenfranchising long-standing zoned families that long ago discovered the gold in their zoned schools should trump any illegitamate or latecomer family that views the same school as their last resort. Honestly, it’s one thing to want the best for your child, but it’s quite another to lie, cheat and steal to get it. Bad karma got these families into the mess they’re currently in; it won’t be long before bad karma will expose their latest scam.
Comment by fdr2 — April 5, 2009 @ 10:57 am
i agree with comment #4 above. As an UES mom, I’m so scared that my 2 yo son will be forced into a “bad” school in 2 yrs! My daughter is in one of the more desirable UES public kindergarten now, but we’re actually in an “unzoned” “formerly Ps151″ zone. We went to my 5 yo daughter’s PTA last week, and the principal said that they received 200 kindergarten application for the zoned kids, and another 100 unzoned kids applications!!! And we only have 5 classes per grade!!!! How does the math work out? Or will certain kids be forced further uptown into the ElBario’s schools?
Comment by Anonymous — April 6, 2009 @ 1:41 am
BTW, how are the PS151 UES kids doing this year? Can any parents out there share their experience?? We went thru chaos last year, but it was worth it (for me personally) since my 5 yo daughter is in a “desirable” UES school. Not sure what’s going to happen to my son in 2 years, he’s only 2 yo now. And there’s so much talk about rezoning, new schools, etc. Let’s face it, there is a HUGE variation in educational standard amongst the 6 schools for us “unzoned/PS151″: PS 6, 290, 158, 183, 59, 198, and it is a mysterious lottery process/
Comment by Anonymous — April 6, 2009 @ 2:03 am
Need some help on this one…. we are moving to UES to PS 290 school zone in December from Ireland. How would I go about getting him sorted to start school as soon as we get to the city? I’ll time the move so that it links in with when the PS 290 christmas break is over. Thanks for any help or info on who to contact.
Comment by Beth — April 6, 2009 @ 6:59 am
We all fret about school placement, and do whatever we can to get our son or daughter into the ‘best’ school. Sometimes this is our zoned school, and sometimes it is not. What we each need to remember is that it is our job as a parent to advocate and fight for what is best for our child. The DOE and our local, zoned school are not going to make things happen, unless YOU make it happen.
The reality is that this is the way the NYC schools are, and always have been. Parents will lie to get their kids into a preferred school, will pull strings with officials and principals, and will cry bloody murder when they don’t get what they want.
Although both the pre-K and the Kindergarten processes were awful to endure, now that my child is headed to first grade next year we don’t have to think about this process again until middle school. Happily I do not know of any parents that are unhappy with the school their child is attending for Kindergarten this year.
My advice, take a deep breath, figure out what you want for your child, fight for it, but willing to take your second or third choice. You might be surprised how much you like the school for your child. Even if the school’s grade or test scores are not the top in your district, it is the parents that make the real difference. Perhaps you and your child can make a difference.
Comment by heading to first grade — April 6, 2009 @ 10:22 am
What they do to accomodate another Kindergarten class is make upper grade classes (3rd, 4th, & 5th) huge (30-35 students) which is just as detrimental to students already identified as struggling given all of the standardized testing. Of course, if the city was able to create schools that were all as desirable as the 5 or 6 identified by the NY Times in Sunday’s Real Estate section (and believe me as a teacher and a parent there are quite a few others out there) this would not be such a problem. Just be forewarned that when you push for that spot in Kindergarten someone else will be doing it when your child reaches the upper grades.
An active PTA with the ability to bring in significant additional financial resources is a major contributing factor to a schools success in any neighborhood, as is a savvy principals ability to juggle their own schools numbers and budget.
Comment by brooklyn p.o.v. — April 6, 2009 @ 4:04 pm
beth: be careful of the ps290 admission process. i live in UES, and i heard that ps290 is already “full” and that even kids who are zoned are placed on waiting list.
Comment by Anonymous — April 7, 2009 @ 3:17 am
Reading that NY Times article, I wonder how much of the furor could be abated if PS 165 — which most of the parents’ quoted are zoned for — had accepted a new G&T kindergarten last year. Could that school be made more inviting to all the families living in the area? Would they bring donations and resources helpful to the lower-income kids currently served by that school? Are the “bad” schools really that bad?
Comment by Anon — April 7, 2009 @ 9:26 am
to poster #23: we are zoned for 165 and chose another public kindergarten for our child. we would have loved to go to our local school, but it seems like 165 isn’t even trying to make the school attractive to the many parents in the zone who work for columbia and could be providing donations and resources. as you said, they stopped doing new g&t classes, and many parents pulled their children out of the g&t classes they did have because they hated the amount of time spent on test prep. it is crazy the school and the community can’t get together to figure out how to make this zoned school work for everyone.
Comment by UWSmom — April 10, 2009 @ 5:56 pm
SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!
what i don’t understand is how you get on the waitlist in the first place. i mailed in the application, never received a letter and have called the doe and the placement office and they have said, ‘we don’t yet know where the waitlist will be.’ they said to call back next week. they took my name but that is it. i preferenced ps 3, have called them and they have directed me to integrated services- they say the same thing. i basically have no idea if i am even an on a list or not. i would appreciate your thoughts.
Comment by toral — April 20, 2009 @ 12:37 pm
Toral, you should have received a letter from the DOE in response to your application for a kindergarten seat. If you didn’t, go to the school and ask to register, and call the DOE (again, I know) and explain that you’ve not had any confirmation of your child’s application. From your post it’s not clear if the school you prefer is your zoned school or not, which makes a difference, especially for high-demand schools. To my best understanding, wait lists are maintained by schools, not DOE, and schools are supposed to hold space for students who arrive and seek registration over the summer and into early fall.
Comment by helen — April 21, 2009 @ 11:33 am
thank you to helen. for ps 3 / ps 41 (our zoned schools) the doe is keeping the waitlist- i finally heard from them today and signed up.
Comment by toral — April 28, 2009 @ 3:04 pm