G&T increases don’t reflect systemic change
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As we await word from the Department of Education on first-grade G&T eligibility, a succinct, cogent analysis of kindergarten G&T testing, in a GothamSchools comments string, is well worth considering, especially set against DOE claims of gains in historically underserved communities. The author is Jennifer Jennings, an education blogger, grad student, and recent coauthor, with Leonie Haimson, of a report indicting the DOE for dubious high-school pushout practices.
Jennings notes that last year and this year, three districts (of 32 citywide) were the source of 40 percent of all students qualifying for gifted programs - districts 2 and 3 in Manhattan, and District 22 in Brooklyn.
Adding in districts 15, 20, and 21, all of Brooklyn, which are the next three largest contributors to the G&T student pool, 56 percent of all admissions, this year and last, went to students from just six districts.
So even though the numbers are up, the basic landscape of gifted education “has not changed in any meaningful way,” Jennings writes. She continues, “expressing the growth in number of seats in terms of percent changes is extremely misleading given that the poor districts had a tiny number of students participating to begin with.”
A Times analysis attempted to raise similar, if less pointed, questions, but DOE spokesman Andy Jacob said he couldn’t provide an official “definitive explanation.” Let’s hope that changes, and quickly, too.
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Thank you for following up re: 1st year OLSAT takers! We are all so alone out there when it comes to getting answers.
Comment by Anon-Mom — May 6, 2009 @ 11:41 am
So it looks like getting a 97 OLSAT into a 1st grade spot is going to be hopeless, right?
Comment by Anonymous — May 6, 2009 @ 2:40 pm
Nothing is hopeless — nothing is certain — and we’re still waiting for DOE to come back to us with first-grade G&T answers. Hope to have fresh news in the morning if not sooner; sorry to try your patience, and thanks for hanging in.
Comment by Helen — May 6, 2009 @ 5:31 pm
OLSAT scores received finally - shocking how poorly my child did. Doesn’t even seem like I received the right report. No, I’m not a parent in that’s just in denial. I know my child and based on the other testing we did earlier, there is quite a discrepancy. Now, I understand the parents that criticize this test. Anyone else out there feel this way?? Well, now we can move on - no more waiting!
Comment by Sarah — May 6, 2009 @ 5:47 pm
Sarah - I completely agree. I said this in response to another article. Our child scores over 140 on the Stanford-Binet (high enough to qualify for Mensa) and 99% on the BSRA, but 80% on the OLSAT? I can see where people question the validity of this test.
Comment by Anonymous — May 6, 2009 @ 6:05 pm
Sarah, the same thing happened to me last year. Scored through the roof on a good assortment of tests…and totally tanked on the OLSAT. Thankfully she got into a fabulous GenEd that we couldn’t be happier with…but yeah, the OLSAT,and the method they use to administer it, is not a well-rounded way to judge a four-year-old’s intelligence and abilities.
Comment by Julie — May 6, 2009 @ 6:21 pm
Me too!! My child bombed the test, and she did very well on the ERB.
Comment by Sally — May 6, 2009 @ 6:45 pm
Is the stanford-binet the same as the erb?
Comment by Sally — May 6, 2009 @ 6:49 pm
Thank you all! Okay, it’s not just me! You’ve helped me feel better, really. I guess I never thought this would be the outcome but I’m sure we’ll be happy with the school she got into.
Thanks again and best of luck to everyone.
Comment by Sarah — May 6, 2009 @ 7:23 pm
We got 1st grade news in D2….scored a 97, so have choice of all citywide schools as well as district programs in 11, 33, 111,116, 126, and the school on Roosevelt Island. Out of the running are 77 and 124, presumably 77 is full and 124 consolidated its two under enrolled classes.
Comment by Another Parent — May 6, 2009 @ 7:37 pm
I posted about the OLSAT’s inaccuracy earlier. (and no, none of my kids has taken it)
I think it is a horrible test to use and encourage the folks above who had a big discrepancy between IQ test or ERB scores and the OLSAT to write to your council person and the mayor’s office, point out the discrepancy, and ask for DOE to choose a test more accurate in gauging which children will need a faster-paced, more in-depth curriculum, such as may be provided in a G&T classroom.
Comment by brooklyn mom — May 6, 2009 @ 9:41 pm
Actually - PS 77’s Kindergarten (”Lower Lab”) is not totally full. There are a few spots there and that is the great mystery this season: Why have the G&T folks at DOE not made PS 77 an option for first grade?
Comment by Anonymous — May 7, 2009 @ 7:23 am
Anon @ 7:23am: LL K has exactly one spot open at this point. There are a few children who will not come back next year. I am very sure one 100% for sure open seat is not enough to make it to the application (there will be enough sibs who will snag it up anyway). The seats that will open up over the summer due to attrition will probably go up to the auction block for the new folks having their children tested in the summer. Or the DOE will get back to folks who haven’t accepted anything and ask them if they are interested.
Comment by Anonymous — May 7, 2009 @ 8:25 am
There’s always going to be complaints no matter what the test is to measure giftedness. In fact, didn’t they change the test to OLSAT because of the charges the ERB/SB were racist or something. I’m sure there are pros and cons to both tests, and I am sure both can miss gifted kids. At the same time, it doesn’t mean those that scored high on the OLSAT aren’t gifted.
This argument always comes up after the results. Of course, parents are disappointed if their children didn’t score high. It doesn’t help to attack the test, however, or the children who did score high. And the charges of prepping are getting old and boring. In our child’s case, it didn’t occur.
Comment by Anon — May 7, 2009 @ 9:56 am
No one is attacking children here…parents have a right to voice these concerns.
Comment by anon — May 7, 2009 @ 11:03 am
In a sense, people are attacking kids. “Oh, you must have prepped your kid,” is probably meant for the parent, of course, but is also implying that the kid isn’t gifted, just prepped.
I, too, am expressing my concerns, and I respect yours, but don’t agree.
Comment by Anon — May 7, 2009 @ 11:16 am
Parents also have right to prep thier gifted children.
Comment by Anonymous — May 8, 2009 @ 10:14 pm
I feel much better now after reading these comments. My 4 year old scored 95% on Stanford-Binet, 94% on BSRA but 38% on OLSAT! When I discussed the discrepancy in these results with the G&T administrators all I heard back was too bad, try next year. I was also told that BSRA and OLSAT measure very different things, which I agree with after reading about them, but I am still puzzled about the degree of difference. I am even more puzzled about the discrepancy between the OLSAT and S&B scores? Are these tests so different as to make a score of 2 standard deviations above the mean in S-B and one standard deviation below the mean in OLSAt not a reason for concern? I do have a son in G&T and his OLSAT and S-B results were much closer. Could someone tell me what may be going on here. Is it unreasonable to ask for a re-test assuming that something has gone terribly wrong here?
Comment by anonymous — May 16, 2009 @ 12:01 am
I don’t think anything is terribly wrong. You may consider asking someone at Hunter. Don’t they use both tests?
I’m sure kids bomb tests all the time at this age, so I suspect it has to do with the age and not the test.
If we really wanted a true measure of giftedness, I be we’d have to hire a psychometric evaluator, where tests are comprehensive. (Who can afford that?) But this is what we have, and I think it’s a decent measure, but not perfect. It’s a measure used nationwide, so this is also probably the reason for DOE using this measure.
DOE should consider dropping the label gifted and talented, and use accelerated or something. (I still wonder why they include talented: my daughter didn’t baton twirl for the evaluator!!).
Comment by Anon — May 16, 2009 @ 6:14 am
There is nothing wrong with the Olsat. ERB/and other IQ test are not the same as Olsat! Olsat measure creative and abstract thinking as oppose to ERB and so fourth. ERB measure their current intelligence. If your child did not get a high score, he may not be gifted. He may have scored high on ERB but he could just be very bright. Gifted and bright are different.
Comment by soccer mom — June 3, 2009 @ 4:12 pm
soccer mom–most experts think there is quite a lot wrong with the OLSAT as a test for 4-year-olds. I’m glad your child scored well, but it’s actually one of the poorest tests for establishing giftedness in that age group.
Comment by Julie — June 4, 2009 @ 9:18 am