G&T: “Incomplete information” from DOE, amended
Parents of children who tested for 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade seats in district and citywide gifted and talented programs this year have faced frustration and confusion as they await news of test scores — and, for parents at one Upper West Side school in Manhattan, for evidence that their children actually took the critical tests.
Department of Education spokesman Andy Jacob confirms that “several parents at PS 9… have not received a score report even though their children took the admissions test.” He continues, “We are working with the school and the test company to locate the tests,” and adds, “We’ll obviously make sure that none of these students who took the test are at a disadvantage in the application process.” What he doesn’t detail is precisely how the students whose tests are AWOL will be evaluated; some parents have suggested using last year’s scores, others protest that using old tests will skew this year’s outcome (see below). To date, the DOE is silent on how it means to address any potential “disadvantage.”
We’ve also heard from many parents of children who were permitted to apply for citywide G&T programs based on last year’s scores — which contradicts what Jacob told us last week. In an email, he writes to correct “incomplete information” for students in the Bronx, Staten Island, and Queens — boroughs that, for the most part, did not have kindergarten-entry G&T programs last year. “The hardship of traveling to Manhattan may have dissuaded some families from applying,” says Jacob, which is why the DOE will permit eligible children to apply for citywide G&T programs based on last year’s scores. (Never mind that none of the new citywides will open in the Bronx or Staten Island.) So the bottom line seems to be, some students may apply for citywides on last year’s scores — provided they don’t live in Brooklyn or Manhattan.
The situation with PS 122 in Queens continues to evolve:
Insideschools contributor Laura Zingmond contacted the principal last week, and reported that “starting with the 2009-10 school year, the entry grade for G&T will be kindergarten (one G&T class per grade). FOR ONE YEAR ONLY, the 2009-10 school year, the school will also accept a class of 1st graders to the G&T program. Going forward, students will no longer be able to enter the G&T program in 2nd grade.” Yesterday, Jacob added, “there is no guarantee of a G&T placement in grade 2, even at programs where this has been the entry grade in the past.” (Qualifying 1st graders are guaranteed seats.) Jacob adds that seats are open at two other District 30 schools, PS 85 and PS 150, and that “PS 122 does not have any available G&T seats in grade 2 at the moment.” PS 85 will also house Queens’ new citywide G&T program.
Logistically speaking, sending children to new schools for G&T programs will surely challenge families in their morning commute, and as they organize after-school or daycare coverage for their children, making us think we haven’t heard the last word on G&T at PS 122.
Parents of rising 2nd and 3rd graders who say they haven’t yet received test reports, you’re right — they’ve yet to go out from the DOE, according to Jacob, but “will be mailed this week.” (We have asked him how parents can gain access to open houses and school tours without paperwork in hand and hope for a prompt response.)
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Can you confirm and/or determine how many seats there are for first grade at NEST? Heard from a parent on the tour that there are none. Why would the DOE offer that as a choice if there were no spots?
Comment by midtown mom — May 12, 2009 @ 10:58 am
I feel that the DOE owes it to applicants for 1st on up to have the schools give a rough ballpark at least of the # of spots. We all know that the whole unfair sibling pref. (in what is supposedly a merit system based on a percentile) is going to preclude some kids from spots – - but at least having an idea about which school HAS spots would be helpful. At this point, it feels like anyone looking for a 1st grade spot is just being played!
Comment by Dazed and Confused — May 12, 2009 @ 11:08 am
Helen Why did Andy Jacob not tell the truth in his first statement about last year test takers being allowed to apply for citywide and district at 97% and up as stated in the paper work. It has caused alot of confusion OR IS IT A CASE OF DOE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO ALONG.
Thanks Cathy D10. Also Helen thanks for letting us all vent on you!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by CATHY — May 12, 2009 @ 12:10 pm
What is frustrating about the situation at PS 122 is that NEVER was it suggested or communicated that there would be no entry for 2nd grade G and T in September 2009, even with the addition of K class. Many parents wait to test in 1st grade in D30 because they aim for 122 which has traditionally started in 2nd, because a sibling is there, it continues through middle school, etc. Now that option is being taken away very late in the game. We do not know if they have enough seats at PS85 and PS150 to accommodate all the 2nd graders who would have gone to Academy. The 2nd grade class should be restored for next year to ensure continuity and fairness. see http://122qtag.blogspot.com/ for more info
Comment by Astoria parent — May 12, 2009 @ 12:36 pm
Next time you talk to Andy Jacob, can you clarify whether the seats at 85 for second grade are district or citywide?
The logistics of splitting kids between 122 and any of the other schools would be very difficult if you don’t use the after-school program at 122. The traffic on 21st street and Ditmars is terrible. Parents who drive are often targeted by the NYPD ticketers.
Hopefully they will continue the program at 122 for second grade next year.
Comment by PS122Q SLT Dad — May 12, 2009 @ 4:38 pm
I agree with the above poster regarding number of spots for 1st grade. There are lots of rumors and it would be great if we had the slightest clue if we even have a chance at some schools.
Comment by Anonymous — May 12, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
Midtown mom and Dazed and Confused, it would be great to know how many first grade seats will open — but there’s no way to predict with 100% accuracy who will move/choose other schools, etc. It is safe to say that relatively few first-grade seats open every year; this year, Anderson breaks that rule by opening 25 new seats in first grade and kindergarten. Cathy and Astoria parent, you highlight a real problem between DOE and parents — incomplete communication leads to lots of frustration, misunderstandings and (potential) conflict. The PS 122 situation is particularly troubling, as it will put many families in real difficulty, and should surely have been made clear earlier (and often!). DOE does say that enough seats will be open at 85 and 150 for kids who might otherwise have gone to 122. Our best understanding is that 85 will house both a district G&T and the new citywide program — but we are waiting for confirmation from DOE. Thanks to all for your patience in this season of too much waiting, and for your comments, questions and feedback.
Comment by Helen — May 12, 2009 @ 5:36 pm
Will we see the same chart for higher grades (broken down by district) as was available for K and grade 1 (showing number of students who took the test, and how many qualified at the different levels)?
Comment by Jennifer — May 12, 2009 @ 9:51 pm
I don’t know where else to post this, so I appologize if this is the wrong place to post. My daughter received a 93 on her OLSAT, which makes her eligible for distric 30 G&T. I was shocked to see that besides PS 122 and PS 150, DOE listed a Roosevelt Island school on the application. I am very worried that my daughter will be send there, even though it was the 3rd school of our choice. I listed it as a 3rd choice, but I don’t intend to send her there; for most Queens parents is impossible to send their kids to Roosevelt Island, unless they work there, but how many do?
Roosevelt Island is NOT a good school choice. There are many other schools in Astoria/LIC that have room for non zoned kids (I know for a fact, because my daughter was offered K seats to schools such as PS17, PS 234, PS 166, PS 84, PS 112, ), and these schools would be much more accesible to District 30 parents than Roosevelt Island.
Is not about us being picky-is about being aware of the difficulty of this commute. Subways are always extremely crowded during rush hours, and whether they work in Manhattan or Queens, working parents simply can’t send their kids to Roosevelt Island.
For Manhattan parents would be easier as they would commute against the traffic.
I hope DOE would reconsider Roosevelt Island option. Personally, I work in Flushing and I have another baby, so is next to impossible to send my daughter to Roosevelt Island. She deserves her G&T seat as promised by DOE, but in her district, not on Roosevelt Island, which is not even a Queens district.
I hope other parents will send complaints to make DOE look elsewhere for G&T options.
Am I the only one who thinks Rooosevelt Island is not a reasonable option?
Comment by Astoria Parent — May 13, 2009 @ 7:56 am
Helen, thanks for your reply, but doesn’t it seem odd, if true, that if any particular school had no vacancies, it is pointless to give parents the option of chosing it? At a tour yesterday, the principal told families interested in first grade spots how many seats there were. DOE knows these numbers, even if projected, I am almost certain, and if it knows that there are no current or projected openings, it is futile for parents to rank it.
Comment by midtown mom — May 13, 2009 @ 9:01 am
Midtown mom, “odd” is an extremely polite word for the situation you describe. Your frustration is legitimate and, I’m betting, shared by many parents of ‘older’ students seeking entry to citywide G&Ts, which generally fill in kindergarten with little (and unpredictable) attrition over time. Greater DOE candor would be much appreciated, to say the least.
Comment by Helen — May 13, 2009 @ 9:51 am
We are still waiting for test score – repeated calls and three emails to the NYC Gifted/Talented office have not been helpful in any way.
What do I do?
Comment by GJohn — May 13, 2009 @ 12:09 pm
Helen, if you could find out the projected number, you would be a hero!
Comment by midtown mom — May 13, 2009 @ 3:11 pm
Regarding the 1st grade open spots at Nest, the Assistant Principal of Lower School said this morning at the tour that there will be no additional 1st grade class added, contrary to what has been reported before. She also confirmed that currently there are no open spots for 1st grade. At a minimum, DOE could let people know how many NEW spots there are and where??
Comment by MK — May 13, 2009 @ 4:12 pm
Regarding NEST, I attended the information session on 5/12 and we were told thee that there are no seats open in the first and second grades.
Comment by mcl — May 13, 2009 @ 5:19 pm
Re: Nest seats, to be or not to be. Has anyone emailed the DOE to ask about this? Seems like the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Helen, can you help get to the bottom of this?
Comment by Another Parent — May 13, 2009 @ 6:20 pm
The DOE has posted on its website that test results for current 1st and 2nd graders were mailed out on May 12 (over a week late!). So I imagine we’ll get the letters Thursday, the earliest, but more likely Friday. I still want to know why the DOE thinks it makes sense to cut out the district wide 2nd grade G and T class next year at PS 122. They should be aiming for continuity, not disruption, of this program. Placing kids who would have gone to 122 at other sites is not a sound solution.
Comment by Astoria parent — May 13, 2009 @ 9:22 pm
Hi Helen,
Regarding the D30 situation with 122 losing it’s second grade gifted class:
I met the principal of PS85Q this evening at an orientation for the citywide program. I asked her about her district class. She said she has only one class and there are only ten spots available. They will not have any other district seats in the future at any grade. She had no idea that 122 had lost its second grade seats.
A parent of a first grade G&T student at PS150 was also there. She said there are 17 kids in the class there.
So there seem to be only 18 seats available for second grade in D30 and that both classes will likely be filled to the maximum of 25.
Comment by PS122Q SLT Dad — May 14, 2009 @ 9:38 pm
Hi Helen,
I have still not received my son’s OLSAT scores for first grade. I was told by the DOE that he qualifies for the citywide G & T programs. I was given a letter to attend the tours. I was told by the DOE that they cannot reprint his scores because they were done by a 3rd party vendor. I have no PIN number to log on to their website. My calls and e-mails go unanswered. I even went down to the DOE and was basically ignored. I cannot log on to register my son by May 20th without this paper. There were other parents at the DOE in my same situation. Can you investigate how this PIN number is to be obtained by Wed. May 20th? I feel at this point that I have to hire a lawyer to be heard. This is such a big waste of time for all involved. Thank you.
Comment by Village mom — May 17, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Helen:
My daughter scored 99 on the G&T test and is going into 1st grade. We live in district 25 and can’t decide between PS209 and PS165. How do I decide which is better? One is 5 minutes away and one is 15-20, but I’m trying to decide what’s best for my kid, not best for my commute!! Does anyone have an opinion on this? Please help if you can, we only have 2 days left to decide!!
Comment by K&K's mom — May 18, 2009 @ 8:34 am