High School Hustle: Just how much do grades and test scores matter?
On the soccer field last weekend, the parent of an 8th-grader casually inquired what it takes to get into one of the city’s best high schools. I wanted to laugh, but that wouldn’t be fair, because as I started my own search with my son a year ago, I was equally curious and anxious.
“So, do you think Beacon wants straight As and4s on both tests?” the mother asked. Like many parents trying to unravel the mystery of high school choice in the nation’s largest school system, she wanted straightforward answers that would help her assess her son’s chances. If her son was not an outstanding student, (I did not ask) would his chances of being accepted at one of the top schools be diminished?
As the high school search begins for 8th-graders, the question of who gets in is especially disconcerting. The specialized high schools like Brooklyn Tech, Stuyvesant, and Bronx Science are not for everyone, but the criteria is at least transparent: students take an exam, and if their score is high enough, they’ll get in. Students with poor grades who don’t test particularly well can be accepted, although those who get in generally have taken test prep for the exam.
It’s a lot trickier to figure out the highly selective but non-specialized high schools like Beacon, Bard, Eleanor Roosevelt and Millenium — Manhattan schools which all receive far more applicants than they can possibly accept. And because supply does not meet demand, plenty of students with perfect grades and scores will not get in. The statistics can be truly daunting: Bard High School Early College says on its website that it received some 4,000 applications for 135 places in the class of 2008.
Because many selective high schools generally provide only a bare outline about what they are looking for (grades of 85 and above, for example, and scores of 3 or 4 on 7th-grade math and reading tests) and have their own tests and interviews, the selection process ends up feeling both confusing and ultra-competitive. Parents may want to compare notes about their child’s performance and agonize over who is - and isn’t - selected. Kids will wonder why their friend got into the same school they did not.
During tours last year, I often wondered how already overwhelmed school staff could possibly find the time to consider all the applications. I did wonder how much grades mattered. The long lines at open houses (see Ask Judy’s column this week for more about that) and the nervous conversations among kids and parents created even more anxiety. Just how could an 8th-grader stand out with so many similar applicants?
While it is clear that students with high grades and test scores will likely have more choices, there are no guarantees that choice will work for everyone. Inevitably, some students will not get any of the schools they list as their top choices and will end up assigned to a school they do not want to attend– or even to no school at all in the main application round.
High School Hustle will consider some survival and strategy tips in the next post. In the meantime, we welcome yours!
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Thanks for another informative piece, Liz. It’s good to know you’ll be covering the high school admissions process again this year. Can you look into what, if anything, the DOE plans to do this year to alleviate the problem of having so many (7,500 last year) students receive no placement at all in the first round?
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — September 23, 2009 @ 11:30 am
Liz, thanks for this article - quick question-what’s the cutoff score for the specialized schools. thx
Comment by misty21/eight grade mom — September 23, 2009 @ 1:11 pm
Misty- there is no established cutoff score for the specialized schools. The scores vary from year to year and from school to school, depending on how students rank the schools. Historically, Stuyvesant has had the highest “cutoff”, because of the number of students who rank it first on their applications. Last year the lowest score to be accepted into any of the schools was 472 — for Brooklyn Latin. Students needed to score at least 563 to be accepted at Stuyvesant. Check out last winter’s posts(February and March) on the Insideschools High School Forum for a lot of back and forth on this topic.
Comment by Insideschools — September 23, 2009 @ 3:39 pm
I would add that this is true not only for high school admission but also for middle school. While some of the selective middle schools do base admission on test scores and grades, others do not, preferring to place more emphasis on the interview. And there are some districts, i.e. the one we’re in, which do not seem to have any schools at all that base admission on scores and grades. It is interesting that because the standardized tests have become much easier, the fact that 80%+ of the kids are at grade level is no longer a real indicator that a school might be a good place for high-achieving kids. So as we embark on the middle-school tours, we’re forced to ferret out other information to help us see whether a school might be right for our child. And no, test scores have never been the only determinant factor, but they have been useful in the past in helping families to make this decision.
Comment by district 13 parent — September 24, 2009 @ 9:45 am
If you have a good/smart/talented student, the best approach is to go for specialized schools AND selective schools. The specialized schools only accept the specialized high school test, except for LaGuardia, which requires an audition. ALSO tour and apply to selective high schools. Acceptance to specialized high schools and LaGuardia are in the first round only. If you don’t get in during the first round, acceptance is not possible to these schools in subsequent rounds. If you get into a specialized h.s. and/or LaGuardia, you will almost certainly be offered admission into one of your top selective high school choices (Beacon, Bard, Millenium, etc.). It is possible for one student to get up to 3 choices in the first round - specialized, LaGuardia AND a selective high school. Then you get to pick which one to attend. Lots of seats in the selective high schools get filled up in the first round with kids who choose them over specialized or LaGuardia. If you don’t get into a specialized h.s. or LaGuardia in the first round, you will have to wait until the second round to find out if you are matched to a selective high school. You will not be admitted to more than one school in the second round. You will receive one placement, that hopefully is your first or second choice on your selective high school list - no guarantees. The supplemental round (round 3) is for kids who have not been placed in the first 2 rounds, and they are matched to schools that still have openings - Beacon, Bard, Millenenium and other choice schools rarely have any openings in round 3. So really aim to get in during the first round - which means taking the specialized h.s. test AND auditioning at LaGuardia, if you’re up to it. And don’t forget some of the wonderful new small schools, like NYC iSchool. Good Luck!
Comment by Julie — September 24, 2009 @ 7:44 pm
Absolutely the way to try to have the most choices would be to take the exam for the specialized science high schools, audition for LaGuardia, and also apply for a non-specialized but selective high school, such as Townsend Harris, Bard, Beacon, PPAS, Frank Sinatra, etc. However, to do so requires spending the 2nd half of 7th grade and the fall of 8th grade preparing — test prep classes; music/dance/drama/art classes; portfolio creation, etc. The competition is extremely tough. And yes, many of the students who are accepted to one of the specialized science high schools, such as Bronx Science, are also accepted by LaGuardia, and also are accepted by one of the selective high schools, such as Beacon or Townsend Harris. So after the 1st round, there just aren’t that many seats left in the competitive schools, as many kids get multiple offers.
My advice is to start preparations in 7th grade, and to explore new schools. Millenium is now well established, but we actually toured it (and ELRO, and Bard) while they were still new. Every school has to start somewhere! Tour the new schools that seem promising and talk/email to their staff. Many new schools are allowed to favor students who attend open houses/tours. So make some time for this. You may find a gem!
Good luck!
Comment by Queens Parent — September 24, 2009 @ 11:20 pm
can a student take the test as a freshmen in highschool to attend a specialize school as a sophmore
Comment by hate TWEED — September 25, 2009 @ 5:17 pm
hate TWEED: Yes, a student can take the test as a freshman, applying for sophomore year. A freshman who wishes to take the Specialized High School Admissions Test (SHSAT), or audition for LaGuardia, must contact his/her guidance counselor, so that s/he will be provided with an admissions ticket for the exam or audition. For more information, see the Department of Education’s specialized high school handbook. In fact all freshmen can apply for high school again; an option that many students choose if they are unhappy with the high school they are currently attending. Freshman year is the last opportunity to apply to high school through the regular process.
Comment by Insideschools Staff — September 25, 2009 @ 6:12 pm
I would agree that the most important thing is to try for a lot of places and stay open minded. While it’s great to have goals & push yourself, getting too set on one dream school might be a problem. If parents are relaxed about the different options available and don’t get too caught up in specific requirements for a narrow scope of schools, students are more likely to develop a healthy attitude toward the whole thing. (which I promise will serve them well in the next potential round of application fun.. college!!)
Comment by Toni Bruno — September 29, 2009 @ 8:41 pm