High School Hustle: Where the boys are — or aren’t, and does it matter?
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Once you finally get passed the grueling search for a New York City public high school — the tours, tests, interviews and rankings finally over — a settling-in period begins. But getting information about how it’s going from your child can be even more difficult than isolating statistics on the Department of Education’s website.
High school can be a tough time socially and emotionally. Countless movies, television series, books, and documentaries are devoted to the topic of fitting in and finding high school happiness, if such a state exists.
So I have become especially curious since I learned about the overwhelming ratio of girls to boys at Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School, the audition-only school where my son is a freshman.
“Did you know your school was 74% female and just 26% male?” I asked him recently. (As if he hadn’t noticed).
I soon learned that most of his classes (of about 26-34 students) had only six boys, never more, and that he didn’t mind at all.
Of the 2,652 students at LaGuardia, just 663 are male. Not terribly surprising for a school known for its rich arts, dance, and drama curriculum, but since I’ll have to do another search next year for my younger son, I couldn’t help wondering what the story is at other high schools – and how much it really matters.
After a non-scientific and sometimes frustrating search for statistics on a variety of websites and reports, I determined that many of the most sought-after high schools in New York City are also female-dominant. (Side note: it’s not always easy to track these statistics down, and the numbers may vary from year to year).
A few examples: Females account for 72% of the students at Bard Early College High School on the Lower East side, 65% of the students at Eleanor Roosevelt on Manhattan’s Upper East; and 62% at Baruch College Campus High. School. Manhattan’s Talented Unlimited, another arts-oriented school, is 75% female; the population is 68% female at Frank Sinatra High School in Long Island City.
Townsend Harris, a Queens academic powerhouse, is some 70% female. Females represent 56% of the student body at The New York City Lab School for Collaborative Students in Chelsea, 58% at Beacon on the Upper West Side and 62% at downtown’s Millenium High School.
On the other hand, many of the city’s eight specialized, exam-only, high schools tend to be male dominated. Brooklyn Tech, is only 41% female; while Bronx Science is 45% female. Stuyvesant is 57% male, according to its Quality Review report, a good place to search for statistics.
I also found one extreme example of a school that can answer the question of where the boys are: Automotive High School in Brooklyn has a female enrollment of just 5%.
I asked the DOE why so many top schools are female-dominated. They noted that male students are far more likely to drop out in a city where just over half the students graduate in four years.
Nationally, female students graduate at a higher rate than male students: Some 72% of female students graduated high school in 2003, compared with 65% of male students, according to a 2006 study entitled “Leaving Boys Behind: Public High School Graduation Rates” by the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy.
If I had a daughter and was in the midst of a search, I might think hard about what it would feel like to have so few boys around, especially if you didn’t purposefully choose a single sex school. I know that plenty of families who choose same sex schools feel their children are more focused, less distracted, and better able to perform academically.
Personally, though, I would have hated being surrounded by far more girls than boys. When I entered my large suburban high school in 10th grade (junior high school began in 7th grade and ended in 9th back in those dark ages) boys become the reason, some days, to go to school at all.
In the case of my freshman son, a musician, no statistic or ratio was going to deter him from choosing LaGuardia. The gender issue was a non-issue. I suspect many of the students who compete for spots feel the same.
But Insideschools.org would like to hear more about how people view this issue. Should some of the top schools give an edge to boys to even out their ratios? Would that be fair? And what are city high schools doing to keep boys engaged and in school?
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To find out the current gender ratio (along with the racial breakdown of the student body) for any NYC public or charter school, do this:
1. go to the official DOE website for the school.
2. click on “Statistics” among the selections on the left.
3. scroll down to “Register”
and you’ll have the statistics, with the date they were compiled.
Comment by Roberta — October 5, 2009 @ 2:41 pm
Funny to see this piece. Just two days ago I commented to a friend that Bard is heavily female and thus has a reputation for not wanting boys. I wondered out loud if my son would be messing up his chances to get into a decent school if he aimed to high by putting Bard on his high school application towards the top? (That is my gut feeling.) My friend, who hinted that she has some inside information, assured me that Bard does want boys. I feel torn. Mostly I just want my son in a decent school (”safe and good” as our guidance counselor says). Where do smart, studious, but not particularly articulate or artistically-talented boys go? Probably he’ll end up at Brooklyn Tech. Too bad - I think he could handle Bard and it would be good for him. But .. I don’t think they want him.
Comment by bkparent — October 5, 2009 @ 2:49 pm
To commenter #2: First, Bard DOES want boys, and does offer admission to them - but some boys end up choosing other schools (perhaps with more sports). (I’m a current Bard parent and just heard the principal addressing the gender ratio question at a school meeting last week). Second, schools can’t see how you rank them and so you aren’t hurting your chances by putting your favorite school first, even if you think it’s a long shot.
Comment by anonymous — October 5, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
My eighth grade son and I are in the throes of our high school search, and it seems that the schools you mention would not NEED to “give an edge to boys to even out their ratios.” They turn down so many qualified applicants every year, I’m sure plenty of them are boys who would fit in well and stay in school all four years. It’s so sad that boys are more likely to drop out, but I bet the most sought-after schools are also admitting more girls in ninth grade, and the schools have to be aware of this.
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — October 5, 2009 @ 4:30 pm
The statistics cited about so many girls in so many strong schools are a tribute to the inflexibility of the school system. Many boys mature, both socially and academically, later than girls. It takes many, many guys longer to “get it.” For this, boys are effectively penalized. With schools worried about making AYP, making good on its progress report and all that, the top programs have no incentive to take a chance on a boy who could blossom and grow into meeting tougher academic demands, but isn’t there yet.
Then, by the time the boys manage to pull even in 9th or 10th grade, there’s no where for them to go. They can’t get transfers; if they reapply there are few spots in the most desirable high schools; some strong high schools won’t even consider 10th graders, and nobody (except transfer schools) takes juniors. So boys are stuck in schools that have already underestimated them and left them unchallenged, and usually won’t do much better in the upper grades either. No surprise that so many guys —even the smart ones (maybe especially the smart ones) —drop out. There’s a phrase for it: “Bored out the door.” I’ve always suspected that their dropout rate would fall if we went back to the old system of Jr. Highs, grades 7-9, and High School grade 10-12, so boys would have that extra year to mature before high school.
Comment by manman — October 5, 2009 @ 4:51 pm
I also have a son at LaGuardia. He LOVES the ratio and yes, most of his good friends are girls. It’s got to be harder to be a girl there from a social perspective, but for a guy who can roll with it, it’s a great academic education, artistic education and an invaluable education about the opposite sex.
I wish my fellow commenters with 8th graders a smooth ride through the high school admissions process and best wishes for a good outcome for your child. Try to get some sleep…..
Comment by fascinated — October 5, 2009 @ 9:55 pm
As a LaGuardia student in mostly honors/AP classes, I generally have two or three boys in my classes. What’s really interesting is that when I started taking some regular/non-honors classes, all the boys started appearing! It seems that the divide exists on many levels..
Comment by Toni Bruno — October 6, 2009 @ 5:46 am
On a recent tour of a top-notch middle school, I saw far more girls on the tour than boys. And the girls were sitting quietly, listening; the boys were much more likely to be fidgety and distracted. I wonder who will perform better on the interview?
Comment by district 13 parent — October 6, 2009 @ 10:37 am
The schools that focus on humanities get far more female applicants than male, while the reverse is true for the math-science schools. Bronx Science, Stuyvesant and Brooklyn Tech are so large their combined enrollment is about 20 times that of the small schools you state.
Comment by Clara Hemphill — October 6, 2009 @ 11:21 am
From my perspective the takeaway for me is that on top of test prep, my son needs coaching in interviewing skills to get through the high school search process. I suppose that is obvious but it only occurred to me recently that the middle school application nightmare would have gone much better if we thought of that several years ago.
Comment by bkparent — October 6, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
After LaGuardia’s last school quality review, teachers were apparently told that they needed to seat boys at the front of the room.
Comment by laguardia student — October 6, 2009 @ 3:48 pm
My son would love to go to Townsend Harris, but I have told him not to list it. I don’t like the fact that the school is 70% girls. High schools should be required to admit an even amount of boys and girls for 9th grade. Even if some decide to go elsewhere or drop out later on (which is less likely at the better schools) the ratios wouldn’t change all that much. The 700 girls to 300 boys that exists at Townsend Harris is too great an inequity not to have been that way from the start. It is is a shame because my son will not select it and I am sure other boys also do not pick a school that is mostly girls. So having so many more girls in the first place makes the scenario more likely to repeat.
Comment by queens parent — October 6, 2009 @ 5:22 pm
At a recent breakfast meeting with parents, Bard principal Ray Peterson was asked about the balance of boys to girls. I was intrigued by his answer. He says Bard offers seats to girls and boys in an even ratio of 1 to 1. However, Bard receives acceptances in a ratio of 2 to 1, girls to boys. He cited Bard’s lack of a gym and perhaps the most expansive athletic program at other schools as a reason boys are less likely to accept the seats offered at Bard. (It appears likely that those students offered seats at Bard are also taking the SHSAT and offered seats at one of the specialized schools — and that the boys are more likely to accept the latter).
Comment by Roebling — October 6, 2009 @ 9:39 pm
Correction to the above: … perhaps the “more” expansive athletic program at other schools.
Comment by Roebling — October 6, 2009 @ 9:43 pm
To respond to Toni Bruno’s comment about having more boys in non AP/Honors classes-
Based purely on speculation, I think boys tend to be competitive in a way that girls are not. Although LaGuardia is for the arts, it does have a good academic reputation. Smart girls who have artistic ability probably don’t feel the need to go to a purely academic school in the way that smart boys do. The science high schools grab the smartest guys leaving the more artsy schools like LaGuardia lacking.
Comment by LaGuardia Grad — October 6, 2009 @ 10:16 pm
To respond to LaGuardia Grad, I think that LaGuardia actually grabs the smartest guys. I have a son at LaGuardia now, and he also got into Brooklyn Tech, and many of his male friends at LaGuardia also turned down science high schools. These kids were mature enough to make the right choice for themselves as both gifted artistically and smart. Both the boys and girls at LaGuardia are some of the most focused kids I know, and most organized — they have a full academic and full arts schedule. I do think it has to do with maturity, however, I’ll grant you that. Many boys applying to high school (or middle school) seem to still be finding themselves. Boys applying to LaGuardia seem to have figured out what they want to do, and then feel entirely comfortable going after it. As for comfort level at a school dominated by girls, NOT a problem for my kid, and I would guess not a problem for most if not all guys at LaGuardia. I think most of the male students at LaGuardia have probably had close female friends for years in elementary and middle school orchestras, acting classes, art classes, etc. So being surrounded by female students in high school is not a big deal for them. I would also note that at LaGuardia, the kids do not clump together by sex, which also indicates a certain comfort level.
Comment by Queens Parent — October 7, 2009 @ 12:10 am
As a recent Townsend Harris graduate, I can’t help but smile at the familiarity of this topic. My friends and I spent many a moment complaining about the lack of boys at school and the seemingly “abnormal” high school atmosphere during our first few months at Harris. The feelings lingered throughout my four years of high school, but after a while, I became less aware of it. Most of my classes had a decent number of boys in them and I learned to make friends outside of our small humanities school. I don’t think that the gender ratio at a school should ever deter someone from applying to a certain high school. Boys and girls succeeded equally and in the past two years, boys, not girls, took the spot of valedictorian at THHS.
In response to queens parent’s comment, I’d like to say that if a student is qualified, then he or she should definitely apply for a spot at Townsend Harris HS. The reason there are so many girls at Harris is not due to an unfair quota system. It is due to the high averages of the female middle school students who apply for spots in the next freshmen class. In recent years, the numbers have shifted, and the administration is trying their best to make the ratio as equal as possible.
Comment by Harris Grad — October 7, 2009 @ 12:18 am
One reason I hear boys balking at Bard is because they all are forced to take dance in freshman year. I understand that Bard boys tend to sit and watch in the class instead of trying to participate. What a waste of their time! Perhaps Bard should re-think how they present their courses at the tours. I don’t know if the boys are self-stereotyping or if it’s naturally how they’re wired.
Comment by 8th grade Parent — October 7, 2009 @ 9:21 am
I’m a parent of a boy attending Beacon, where all 9th graders have to take dance. Like most, we didn’t have high expectations for the class. We were in for a delightful surprise. Beacon has a wonderful dance teacher who connects particularly well to boys. My son regularly takes dance classes now.
Comment by Queens parent of 10th grader — October 7, 2009 @ 2:48 pm
As a parent who went through the high school application process last fall and winter and now has a 9th grade boy at Brooklyn Tech I saw what the writer and several of the commentators are saying. Last year Bard had a population of 3 girls for every 1 boy and the sole boy at the panel discussion about the school really liked those odds, after all as a male who wouldn’t. What the DOE has created is a target rich environment whether its for the 5 girls for every 95 boys at Automotive High School or the 25 boys, and probably less who are interested in girls, at LaQuardia or Talent etc.
Girls at a younger age tend to be more social then boys who are still figuring it all out. You see herds of girls wandering their neighborhoods when they are 10, 11, 12 or older but rarely do you see herds of boys at these ages doing the same. Girls talk on the phone, boys don’t etc. Perhaps the idea of pushing middle school to 6-9th grades and then high school at 10th would be a good idea giving the boys an opportunity to mature some more. Girls, from all the reports and research that I heard about, tend to mature earlier then boys. Following through with the trend cited in the article and the DOE’s admission that boys drop out also explains the why graduate programs and colleges themselves are now finding themselves populated by a higher ratio of girls to boys. This is not good for the girls, the boys, the schools or our nation as a whole. Thank you for writing this article.
Comment by Manhattan Parent of a boy — October 7, 2009 @ 7:23 pm
This is an acute observation that will most likely be overlooked if parent don’t address it. My daughter is graduating from Benjamin Banneker Academy-Clinton Hill Brooklyn, in the spring;. She’s glad because the admissions criteria has been modified so intensely, she considered transferring in her senior year! The boys are focused, playful yet focus. The girls are the pushy, provoking loud mouths, and too much is too much. The inbalance is unhealthy as a social setting for maturing pre-teens and teens and like most public schools, the cattle like shift from grade to grade continue with little change. I liked it when parents and teachers could agree on what is best for the class, not just the child. When the Board of Ed focused more or supplying the teachers/admin staff with the tools they need to help the school succeed their goals, produce leaders and scholars!
Comment by Stephanie Reeder — October 28, 2009 @ 11:50 am