High School Hustle: The search goes on….and on
 |
When someone asked me what high schools I might be thinking about for my 7th-grader recently, my answer came swiftly and might have sounded a bit snippy.
“I’m not thinking about it at all,” I said, which of course, isn’t true, much as I’d like it to be, since it feels like we just got him happily settled in middle school.
It is a fact of life for New York City parents: You are always thinking about schools, from pre-school (which can be a grueling ritual of its own) until high school graduation, when the focus shifts to paying for college.
Finding the right school requires vision, organization, and a plan, a painful concept for those who enjoy at least the illusion of casually stumbling through life and hoping for the best. As anyone who is searching for a middle or high school for their child knows, a laissez-faire attitude is not possible. The process is a lot of work. Tours, tests, lists, and strategizing all are all part of the game. Supply simply does not meet demand.
Last year, more than 7,000 New York City public high school applicants were stranded and in limbo; during the middle school search two years ago several of my son’s friends were initially shut out as well, although they ultimately got into the school of their choice.
On top of these known facts, the search takes place a full year ahead of time. That means you must imagine your little hand-holding elementary school student riding the subway alone and carrying a giant backpack up six flights of middle school stairs, alongside some tall, well developed teenage boys with deep voices and facial hair, and girls wearing make-up and revealing outfits.
You find yourself thinking about high school well before your child is physically or psychologically ready, although sometimes it’s just the parents who aren’t ready.
My older son rebelled during middle school tours in fifth grade because he felt all the students “were giants;” my youngest got a headache on every tour and came back adamant about not wanting to leave his elementary school. As a parent, I felt an enormous amount of academic time was lost during both fifth and eighth grade. The way the system is set up, kids miss hours and hours of class time to visit schools and parents have to re-arrange work schedules.
The price of choice is high, and since I know what is coming my way next year, of course I don’t even want to discuss high schools yet – that is, unless anyone has a tip on a fantastic, under-the-radar choice in an easily accessible Manhattan neighborhood?
Insideschools sympathizes with those of you who are missing mornings of work and spending evenings searching for middle and high schools now. Do you feel the tours give you a chance to really think about what kind of education you want for your child? Are there enough good choices? Does your child feel overwhelmed and confused by the visits, the rankings and the entrance exams? Do you think the city and the Department of Education should set up a different system?
Any ideas on how it might work?
Subscribe to 
I am a parent of a seventh-grade student who has started going on some tours and thinking about the high school options. I do appreciate very much that there are more choices than there were for middle school. Of course there are never ENOUGH good schools, but it sure is better than the paltry options for middle school. The guidance counselor at my son’s middle school gave a presentation on the high school application process and I don’t find it too confusing. It is complicated, but actually it makes sense. Honestly, what I really hope is that the DOE does NOT change the application process, since every time they do that it seems to get screwed up.
As for my child, I have talked with him about the different kinds of schools - big v. small, easy commute v. long commute, very selective and challenging v. less so, etc. He is mildly interested. There really are some exciting high schools, and the idea that if his grades and/or scores are good, he could go to one of them is a mild motivation for him to overcome his natural inertia when it comes to putting some effort into his homework. I happen to think that is a good thing for my kid, but I am sure for some parents won’t find it to be so for their own children. Of course, if he doesn’t get into a decent school, I’ll be devastated.
Comment by bkparent — November 16, 2009 @ 10:39 am
As a parent of a 5th grader, one of my big frustrations with the process is that after 6 years of our children working very hard in elementary school, those efforts count for virtually nothing. Rather, in their selection process, most schools place the greatest emphasis on “snapshot” type criteria — a brief test given by the individual middle school and/or standardized test scores Also, it should be noted that the state standardized tests were never intended or designed to serve as admissions instruments, and that the scores being utilized will reflect achievement of over a year earlier by the time admissions decisions are handed down. Report cards and teacher recommendations are looked at as an afterthought or not at all.
Comment by a parent — November 16, 2009 @ 10:47 am
I am the parent of an 8th grader and the process is coming to a close for us. As it turns out, I think we will have a reasonable list of schools and programs within schools to list on her form, and she has a decent shot at her SHSAT school of choice and/or La Guardia. However, I had the luxury of a flexible schedule and sufficient Internet access to be able to book tours and/or open houses (sometimes both!) for all the schools of interest to us.
But we are very lucky: my daughter has had a successful academic career; her year with 26 latenesses was 6th grade, when she had a really difficult year emotionally; only 3 for the all-important 7th grade attendance and punctuality record. And she has a mom who is interested and able to research our possibilities. Plus we live in one borough but close enough to another borough that we have lots and lots of schools that are logistically possible.
I am really concerned for the kids who are not so lucky: a difficult year in 7th grade and/or parents who don’t speak English and/or can’t take time off from work and/or are completely bewildered and intimidated by the process and/or a kid who has not been as successful academically, for whatever reason, as my daughter, and/or etc., etc. The guidance counselor in her school is not very helpful. Last year there were 2 middle school guidance counselors plus another from the attached elementary school on loan for the high school process, with three important languages spoken to help the many non-English-speaking parents; this year, just this one guy.
So for my own daughter, I am cautiously optimistic. For the process, not so sure. Yes, I think (but ask me in February or March!) it will work for us. For the majority of 8th graders, maybe not.
If I could suggest one improvement, it would be for some kind of uniform system of finding out and registering for open houses and tours, plus a requirement of at least one evening open house for each high school. The current decentralized process is extremely difficult.
As for a hot school: keep your eye on the NY Harbor School, moving to Governor’s Island next year.
Comment by anon — November 16, 2009 @ 1:27 pm
My son has had a very difficult time in Middle School, the worst during the 7th grade. He was being bullied every day, got jumped by his classmates. I had to file police reports against these children. Due to all of these problems ,my son did not want to go to school was late a lot of the times, and now here we are completing applications for high school and everything depends on his 7th grade report card. Most of the good schools frown upon tardiness and absences. So, what can I do?
Comment by Elaine Finkel — November 16, 2009 @ 3:38 pm
We are finding the process incredibly frustrating; and the district limitations feel like a system of apartheid. I don’t understand why we are limited by district. We pay taxes that go to the entire school system, but we’re limited by lackluster options in our own district. Like the other commenter above, I feel that it is incredibly sad that our high-achieving child has such limited options at the middle school level. Honestly, reading the posts about District 2 schools, I feel like the kid at the candy shop window, able to look but not enter. True, there are citywide options, but the price is a long commute and a stepped-up level of academics that feels all wrong for early adolescents. Why are there not more options for smart, hardworking kids that don’t involve uniforms and an authoritarian, traditional approach to education? What was so terrible about the regions, which combined several districts into one, which would also have had the effect of mixing up the races and classes? The whole process is incredibly hard on our child, who sees the beautiful facilities of Twain and NEST but also understands the 10:1 ratio between applicants and acceptances. And even if admitted to a citywide, do we want to allow an 11-year-old to spend a couple of hours daily on the subway or bus, followed by hours of homework? Something in the system feels very, very wrong.
Comment by district 13 parent — November 16, 2009 @ 4:24 pm
Reply to #5:
… I don’t understand why we are limited by district….
Some of the school(s) in the better Districts have their own problem(s) in accomodating their own local neighborhood kids (ie: overcrowding) -
If you are serious about having your “high-achieving child” attend a better school -
MOVE….
Comment by anon — November 16, 2009 @ 5:32 pm
The problem with high school choice is that there is always something. Yes, we can go anywhere that will accept us, but we have had long commutes before and we know already that we don’t want anything more than a one hour commute. In our lackluster district, that constrains us considerably.
Yes, many of the schools fall under a single test (SHSAt) but sadly my child, though he has a great average, tests miserably. Yes, some great schools don’t require the SHSAT, but often they require their own test, or have so many applicants for their few seats that getting in comes down to luck.
Yes, there is the option of parochial school, but that is an additional outlay of money and yet another test for my poor not so little child.
This all feels so much like a lottery–count down the odds, prioritize, don’t put down a school you don’t want, but don’t only put down schools you may not get into or you may end up with nothing at all. Surely, surely there is a better way, or at least a way where you don’t got through all this and then have to wait for months to see how the lottery came out!
Comment by Hardworking mom — November 16, 2009 @ 6:42 pm
Where are the good high schools in Manhattan for solid B students? It seems that there are plenty of wonderful schools for A students, but some of not all of our children have stellar averages. Although many of the best schools say you can apply if you have an 85 average, our guidance counselor says that in practice these schools don’t take kids with anything less than a 90, and often, far above that. So where does that leave everyone else?
Comment by Downtown Mom — November 16, 2009 @ 7:05 pm
The insensitivity of #6 astounds me: “If you are serious about having your “high-achieving child” attend a better school -
MOVE….”
Many people do not have the financial means or opportunities to jump up and move. I believe you owe #5 an apology.
Comment by Anonymous — November 16, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
For comment No. 5, about middle school options, you may want to look into Manhattan East School for Arts and Academics (MS 224), which is a Citywide unzoned G&T program, with an arts focus. It has a wonderful instrumental program, and a terrific science lab (high school quality), and great teachers. It places many kids in LaGuardia, Frank Sinatra, Beacon, Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, etc.
Comment by Queens Parent — November 16, 2009 @ 7:57 pm
For comment 5,
I agree wholeheartedly that very child deserves a chance to shine. I know middle school entrance tests seem unfair from where you stand, just as, at times, the specialized high school exam, looming in my child’s future, seems to me,but these tests do have a legitimate purpose. But, with a child who is in his second year at one of the schools you mention, I have seen, otherwise capable kids, struggle with tough coursework. If these kids who made it through the entrance tests, still need to work so hard to succeed, what would it be like for those that didn’t make the cutoff? No one wants their child to suffer. Sometimes it’s better not to get into a school.
Comment by EFM — November 17, 2009 @ 8:15 am
I’m commenter #5 above. I don’t disagree with entrance tests for the citywides; they seem perfectly fair. I just question why there are so few options of real quality outside of a very few affluent districts in the city. And yes, we’re very hesitant, even if our child qualifies for a citywide spot, to commit to that level of coursework and homework. But for residents of districts with less than stellar middle schools, they may be the only option for a smart kid. The DOE’s solution seems to be to open ever more charter schools that feature long days, much test prep, uniforms, and school names that evoke New England boarding schools. Most parents I know seem very turned off by this approach; we just want good quality neighborhood schools with some racial and cultural diversity, a progressive approach to education, and enough rigor to challenge our children without turning them into test-prep automatons. We want them to love learning. How hard is that?
Comment by district 13 parent — November 17, 2009 @ 8:43 am
Very well said, #5/12!
Comment by Anonymous — November 17, 2009 @ 9:02 am
One word — Homeschool!!!!
Comment by anonymous — November 17, 2009 @ 10:10 am
In response to comment 14
Homeschooling is only a viable choice if, along with a child willing to comply, you have the time, resources, patience, disposition, and ability to teach.
Even if you a fortunate to have all these qualities, there are plenty of obstacles to surmount. The DOE will not help you on your endeavor. The older your child gets the trickier and more complicated are the lesson plans, records, and curriculum materials get, that you have to compile. By the time your child reaches the high school level, there are subjects that, when homeschooled, they cannot receive complete credit for, because they require lab time. In the end, for all your troubles, your child will receive the equivalent of a GED diploma.
Perhaps, despite everything, in the end, your child will have had a superior education, then again, perhaps not.
Comment by EFM — November 17, 2009 @ 11:09 am
To response to 5/12
You sound like a very thoughtful parent, and it has been a pleasure conversing with you. As for finding the ideal school, all schools have their flaws,no matter how glowingly they represent themselves. The key, is finding a school that fits the individual child; their temperament, their interests, their abilities. Though it may seem a daunting task right now, the way you speak, gives me the feeling that you will be successful.
Comment by EFM — November 17, 2009 @ 11:19 am
Downtown Mom/comment 8, what about the High School for Environmental Studies on W. 56th St.? They are having an open house this evening and on Saturday morning and we are going. It’s an educational option school which means that they take a distribution of kids (plus an honors academy that I understand kids admitted to the regular program can move up to). It looks like an interesting place, and it’s not tiny (around 1300 students I think) so they have a good number of seats.
Comment by Roberta — November 17, 2009 @ 11:38 am
In response to comment 15
The availability of resources, classes, curriculum, tutors, and support groups for homeschoolers is overwhelming. The sky is the limit. The only difficulty is trying to sort through all of these varied options.
Homeschoolers do not want the DOE’s “help on this endeavor”. The DOE can’t seem to handle their own endeavors. Homeschooling is a viable and desirable option. Homeschoolers are looked upon favorably by many colleges and universities. Many homeschoolers go on to the college of their choice (with scholarships).
No they do not receive the equivalency of a GED diploma. What they do receive is the freedom to pursue their passions and the opportunity to steer clear of a one-size-fits-all education.
Comment by anonymous — November 17, 2009 @ 4:49 pm
I’m not a parent myself, but I remember my parents only thinking once about what public school I would attend. That was when they were looking for a new house. After buying and moving in, they didn’t have to think about schools again until I was headed to college.
Life seemed so much simpler then, in the suburbs with zoned schools. But there are probably downsides to raising kids in the suburbs. For one thing, kids usually want a car at 16. Also, there are fewer stray cats.
Comment by Matt — November 17, 2009 @ 5:26 pm
For NY state information on the guidelines for homeschooling here is the link: http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/nonpub/homeinstruction/homeschoolingqanda.html
Comment by EFM — November 17, 2009 @ 6:28 pm
Homeschooling? Really?!? Come on, people, this is a public school blog. We are all a bit anxious about the middle and high school selection process, but seriously–homeschooling?!
For me this whole absurd citywide high school selection process was encapsulated a couple of weeks ago. We live in Manhattan and we were on our way to tour a high school in Brooklyn. We ran into some Brooklyn friends on the street a few blocks from our home who were on THEIR way to tour a high school in OUR neighborhood. And it hit me, why are we trudging all the way to Brooklyn, while they’ve come here? Why don’t they just stay in their neighborhood, and we can stay near our home. They’re both good schools, problem solved.
It just feels like this citywide system was designed to wear us down, because when we’re trudging to open houses all over the five boroughs and prepping for a standardized test, trying to make a living and get an education, we’re too busy to demand a good high school in every neighborhood for all of our children.
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — November 17, 2009 @ 11:35 pm
21, please, tell me where the good schools are near me in Brooklyn? I don’t think there are any. All of the one’s considered good in Brooklyn are enormous — Tech, Midwood, Murrow. (and only Tech is anywhere closeby) Where are the small boutique schools that are available in Manhattan? (and yes, we have applied to Brooklyn Latin, that qualifies as a small boutique, I guess, but it is in a crime-ridden neighborhood and takes 50 minutes to get to on a subway from my home, even though it is in Brooklyn).
We are searching in 4 of the 5 boroughs because there just aren’t good schools nearby.
Comment by Anonymous — November 18, 2009 @ 8:47 am
Well said #22. We are in the same position. There are no small schools for smart kids in Brooklyn that we could find either. That is why I am so opposed to the whole District 2 preference thing. School choice is fine only if every child has access to the same types of schools that seem to only exist in Manhattan.
Comment by cgmom — November 18, 2009 @ 9:25 am
#22 and 23. Decent small schools in Brooklyn: Leon Goldstein and High School for Telecommunications, to name just two.
Comment by bkparent — November 18, 2009 @ 9:34 am
#21 here. Yes, the school we were going to visit was Brooklyn Tech, which we loved, so my son joins the other 27,000 kids taking the SHSAT to qualify. I apologize–I guess I didn’t make my point well, because I can’t tell you where the good schools are in your neighborhood. I realize that we are fortunate here to have more good schools nearby than most people. But what I was trying to say is that my son and your child have the same shot at Beacon, La Guardia, Brooklyn Tech, Brooklyn Latin, Murrow and Midwood. They are all citywide schools. District 2 schools are great if you live in District 2, which only covers part of Manhattan. We don’t live in District 2 so those schools aren’t available to my son either. I understand that in Queens some neighborhoods have good zoned high schools, though these are extremely overcrowded. The DOE’s solution to inequity and segregation in the schools is cruel and Darwinian–it’s like throwing all the students in the five boroughs up in the air and seeing where they land. So every day kids in Manhattan commute to Brooklyn, passing Brooklyn kids on their way to Manhattan. For example. It’s crazy and broken.
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — November 18, 2009 @ 10:19 am
Correction to entry above: Midwood is a neighborhood zoned school. Which is great for the kids in the neighborhood, but I see no indication that the DOE is moving toward creating more of these around the city.
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — November 18, 2009 @ 10:49 am
to #24. It would take my daghter over an hour - taking 2 subway lines and at least one bus - to get to Leon Goldstein so that is not an option. Telecommunication seems to be an ok high school and again no where near where we live but it is not the same level of academics as a Beacon or Baruch or the Lab school. The system has thousands of kids vying for the same few schools because the choices closer to home do not really exist.
Comment by cgmom — November 18, 2009 @ 11:00 am
A big reason why there are so many small school options in Manhattan is because the borough does not have the space to house enough large, comprehensive high schools to serve its population and there is no space to build a large, high school building. Ten years ago many of the highly regarded small, Manhattan schools didn’t exist or weren’t highly regarded (Upper Lab is the big exception; Beacon wasn’t an “it” school until the past six years or so). Eleanor Roosevelt HS is the product of at least a decade of protests and activisim on the part of Upper East Side parents to get a neighborhood school. It exists because of the efforts of Dist. 2 parents. Before it opened less than a decade ago, these families had no zoned school and no large, comprehensive high school like Francis Lewis, Midwood, Cardozo, etc with a mixed of regular and honors classes to serve the needs of their students. The admission standards for Eleanor Roosevelt and several other Dist. 2 high schools reflect the fact that the majority of students living in the priority zone meet those achievement levels.
The real problem is that the schools are really too small for the demand. The DOE should have created schools that could handle 600- 800 students instead of 400. This way the solid, but not stellar students are not blocked out of selective admissions schools, where they belong. And, there would be enough space to give priority admission to students living in a particular zone (as large comprehensive high schools do in other areas of the city) and still have plenty of seats for qualifying students willing to commute from other parts of the city. Perhaps the DOE will reconsider the size of the new Frank McCourt school opening in the former Brandeis HS building.
Comment by mgmom — November 18, 2009 @ 12:37 pm
Regarding comments 22-26:
My daughter is a 9th grader at Brooklyn Tech, and it’s working out great - honest. She’s not even primarily a science student. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said no way that Tech, or even Stuyvesant, was a legitimate option (the pressure, of course). But a funny thing happened on those tours. You can make yourself crazy going to all of the schools, but academically, their programs don’t hold up that well under a microscope. The kids always want the latest hot school - last year, Beacon. It is nonsense about the 85 average and up, the only kids from NEST that got into Beacon last year were the top students. And for what? Many of those kids ended up turning it down, because of their specialized choices. Don’t write Brooklyn Tech off, they have good sports teams and extracurriculars, and a strong academic foundation.
Comment by Sherry — November 18, 2009 @ 12:52 pm
Murrow is restricted to Brooklyn students. Midwood has a zoned program but it also has 2 different programs that are open to students city-wide.
We have the same issues as some other parents reported–many Brooklyn schools are really far away and hard to get to; many Manhattan schools are closer and easier to get to.
Comment by Roberta — November 18, 2009 @ 1:18 pm
I am a 7th grade parent who has already decided on a High School for next year: small, kids who are focused, takes out of zone students, offers AP courses, amazing stats…My son is opting not to take the specialized exams nor does he have any interest in attending those hugh specialized schools…and, I am not pushing him to enter.
He currently attends Urban Assembly Academy of Arts and Letters where he has a 98% avg., level 4s on tests and his school environment is small and intimate. It would not make sense for him to have such a dramatic change, the variables would be too large and it may change his current work habits.
There are so many kids/parents who are gung-ho about specialized hs and not all succeed under such pressure or competition.
Yep. I found a great school, but I am not telling.
Comment by nancy — November 18, 2009 @ 1:22 pm
Spending all this time touring and worrying distracts people from the real problem - there are no great schools in Manhattan (other than the specialized)and only a few decent ones. the decent ones give preference to district 2, so a bright upper west side kid with great grades and test scores has no choice but to go to Stuy or Bx Science. if he messes up the shsat & doesn’t get in, there is no place to go.
we need some decent neighborhood schools like every other city in the world.
Comment by Fran — November 18, 2009 @ 1:37 pm
#28,
There are plenty of large high school buildings in Manhattan. Most of the large comprehensive high schools for which they were built have failed and were closed, with several tiny schools now sharing each building. E.g., Seward Park, Julia Richman, Martin Luther King, the old Stuy building, Washington Irving.
Comment by Roberta — November 18, 2009 @ 2:02 pm
Regarding #32, many of us in District 3 (Upper West Side) agree with you completely. In fact, we have written a letter to Chancellor Klein to support of our position:
District 2 has six screened schools that offer preference for their students. District 3 has none. All screened schools should take students from across the city and not be limited by geography.
We welcome any and all support of this idea and encourage you to copy the letter, adapt it to your view as necessary and send it to the mayor, the chancellor, your elected officials and anyone interested in or advocates for fairness in our NYC schools. You can access the letter at our blog: nychsasg.blogspot.com. I’ll try to paste it into this discussion next.
Does anyone know how the District 2 preferences got started and how they’ve been allowed to continue?
Comment by Sara — November 18, 2009 @ 2:12 pm
Here is the letter that two 8th grade parents have written on behalf of District 3 families:
Dear Chancellor Klein:
I am writing to tell you of a gross inequity in the New York City high school application process that we face as we negotiate the stressful, complicated process of trying to get our kids into screened high schools. There are at least six screened schools in District 2 that offer preference to either District 2 students or students in their geographic area. These high schools are: Eleanor Roosevelt, Millennium, The School of the Future, Baruch College Campus High School, The Lab School, and The Museum School.
It happens that these schools are consistently among the top-rated screened public high schools in New York City, and technically any 8th grade student in the city can apply to them. But because these schools are mandated, sometimes against the school’s own wishes, to give preference to District 2 students, it’s much harder for students outside the district to get in. Yet very few high schools in other districts offer a similar district preference, so understandably many parents feel that students in District 2 (which happens to be one of the wealthiest districts in Manhattan) enjoy an unfair advantage over students in the rest of the city.
We are in District 3, and there are currently no screened schools that offer preference to District 3 students. These students, applying for high school from such District 3 public middle schools as Mott Hall II, Delta, Computer School, Columbia Secondary School, and The Center School, find that the playing field is not level. Many of these students are interested in rigorous high schools with high graduation rates and offerings of AP classes, such as the six mentioned schools in District 2, and Beacon High School in District 3. But the District 2 schools essentially exclude them, and Beacon is open to students citywide, which would be fair enough if that policy were followed by all high schools in the city.
As parents of these District 3 children, who like all parents in the city pay taxes for all the schools in the city, we feel that the quality of our children’s high school education, and potentially college education, is skewed by where they live — and that the DOE condones this inequity. In fact, according to at least one District 2 high school principal, this unfair and discriminating practice has been enforced most rigorously in the last four years, at the behest of the Chancellor of the DOE.
Please get back to me with your thoughts on how the DOE will level the playing field so that our students, and all New York City students, can have the same opportunities that District 2 students enjoy.
Sincerely,
Comment by Sara — November 18, 2009 @ 2:15 pm
Does anyone know how the District 2 preferences got started and how they’ve been allowed to continue?
Comment by Sara — November 18, 2009 @ 2:17 pm
Why is the district system as a whole still so entrenched? The district offices have lost any ability to support the schools therein, in contrast to the time before mayoral control when, I gather, the district superintendents did have the ability to make decisions about educational issues and function as support for principal. They’re not a resource for parent support. The only real function they seem to have is to provide limits for school choice. And this has the effect of furthering the inequality between more and less affluent areas of the city, as well as perpetuating racial segregation and the achievement gap. The contrast between Districts 2 and 3 is one example; another is the contrast between District 13 and 15 in Brooklyn, which sit side by side (I once lived on a street on which one side was 13, the other, 15.). 13 is overwhelmingly African American, many more students eligible for free lunch; 15 much more affluent and much whiter in the northern portion, hispanic in the south. The contrast between the quality of many of the elementary and middle schools in these districts is striking and sometimes heartbreaking.
Comment by district 13 parent — November 18, 2009 @ 2:42 pm
Roberta. You’re right that there are buildings in Manhattan that once housed large high schools. However I moved to Manhattan in the early 1990’s and by then many neighborhoods in Manhattan didn’t have a zoned school similar to what was common place in the other boroughs at that time. Julia Richmond, which was the high school for the Upper East Side was closed before my oldest started kindergarten.
In general, I don’t think the very small school format(400 kids) is great for most solid to high-achieving students. And given the number of good students who are closed-out of the schools best suited for them, the DOE needs to rethink the size of some of the new, selective schools opening. Upper Lab is crammed into one floor of a building. It’s great school that could be even better if it was given a bigger home where it could benefit from better facilities and open its doors to more kids . Why not find a space where it could double in size (or at least increase by 50% — it would still be a pretty small school) and split the difference in terms of admissions. If the school is admitting 200 kids per grade. Give Dist. 2 priority to 100 seats and open another 100 seats to citywide admissions.
Of course, that still doesn’t address the fundamental issue of why there aren’t similar options in Brooklyn. I’m not sure how much of a record there is out there, but perhaps parents in Brooklyn can research the history of Eleanor Roosevelt and find out how parents organized and succeeded in getting a selective admissions school opened in their neighborhood. Most of that fight took place before Bloomberg became mayor, but I’m pretty sure the school opened around the time he took office. AND, the next time there is hint of a new charter school opening up, fight the DOE to open up a selective admissions high school in its place, which is sorely needed in a lot of communities. The school doesn’t have to be super-selective, but at least geared towards solid students who could handle advanced classes and independent study.
Comment by mgmom — November 18, 2009 @ 3:07 pm
I also meant to add that it’s beyond ridiculous that the DOE isn’t alotting more space in Brandeis High School for a Dist. 3 priority school with classes and programs to meet the needs of the majority of kids who reside in Dist. 3. Perhaps it’s not too late to fight the current plans for the building given that the new schools aren’t functioning at capacity and could be relocated. Again, the Frank McCourt school should be larger.
Comment by mgmom — November 18, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
currently a mom of an 8th grader in howard beach who is struggling with the hs application. we do not have a zoned school listed on our application, and john adams is not an option. someone needs to look at the geographic areas surrounding howard beach and realize that there is a void of hs’s in that area and then figure out where to place a new, decent hs
Comment by hbmom — November 18, 2009 @ 3:31 pm
The issue of South Brooklyn is completely ignored by everybody. Look, D2 and D3 parents fight over 6 or 7 schools and complain about lack of choices and commuting. Think about parents of District 21 - we do have good middle schools too but what choices we have when it comes to high school? Commuting to Manhattan which takes sometime two hours? Large overcrowded school like Madison? Brooklyn Tech? Couple of new schools at Lafayette which do not have any good academics or sports? Upper East side is populated by wealthy people who have means to reach DOE and fight for decade and South Brooklyn is populated mostly by immigrants. The chances of opening selective school in South Brooklyn are near to nothing.
Comment by Anonymous — November 18, 2009 @ 5:00 pm
gigitty
Comment by PINGAS — November 18, 2009 @ 6:09 pm
I can’t wait for our conversation here in February.
Comment by Anonymous — November 18, 2009 @ 7:17 pm
RE: #34 - The DOE is trying hard to have all NEW high schools be as open as possible - often against the wishes of the local community - which wants kids from the area to have first preference to attend a school near where they live. Last spring, D24 in western Queens had a new 1,100 seat HS approved to be built. The DOE buckled to much pressure from the local City Councilwoman and will give first preference in admissions to D24 students (although the community acually wanted a .25-.5 mile zone around the school to get first preference!). The DOE conceded that this will be the first HS opened under Chancellor Klein which will have any kind of “zoning.”
Comment by Marge Kolb — November 18, 2009 @ 8:04 pm
This thread is amazing. Sara’s question is crucial: Does anyone know how the District 2 preferences got started and how they’ve been allowed to continue? Where are the authoritative voices on this?
Comment by Eighth Grader's Mom — November 18, 2009 @ 8:19 pm
Re 28/38
I agree that 400 is too small. Having 900-1000 students allows for several foreign languages, a band, a choir, and several sports teams. I think the old formula for high school admissions used to be something like 8/84/8, which meant 8% or fewer below grade average, 84 % at grade average, and 8% above average. In a school of 1000 students, there would be options for B average kids and those who need a bit of help or acceleration.
It’s sad that nearly all 8th graders put Baruch, Bard, Eleanor Roosevelt, Beacon, Environmental Science and Millennium High School. I think there’s one more most people choose.
We need fewer mini schools in big buildings. The students in those schools get few choices and often have no real library, music groups or sports. We deserve larger normal schools
Comment by 7th grade parent/HS teacher — November 18, 2009 @ 8:47 pm
#41, have you considered Leon Goldstein? They have screened admissions and at 1000 students, is much smaller than Brooklyn Tech (my alma mater), Midwood, or Murrow.
I agree that the small schools at Lafayette are undesirable options. Kingsborough Early College seems to be an exception, but the Inside Schools review states that there will be few openings for 9th graders. Most students would be admitted in the 6th grade and expected to remain until graduation from high school.
Comment by Anonymous — November 18, 2009 @ 9:00 pm
#46,
The formula for educational option schools is 12 percent in the top (mostly 4’s on the 7th grade ELA test), 12 percent on the bottom (1s and 2s) and the rest in the middle (3s on the test.
Comment by Roberta — November 18, 2009 @ 10:29 pm
Comment #31 by Nancy in which she says she has found a wonderful school but “I’m not telling” highlights the horrible position the DOE has put us in, in which our kids must compete against their friends to get into high schools and a parent would actually try to keep a viable school option a secret! Well, I guess I can blame that kind of thing on the process, but really, we are all in this together and should share our knowledge.
Comment by Angry 8th Grade Mom — November 19, 2009 @ 12:16 am
Re #32 - I totally agree there are not enough good schools. But you forgot to mention Bard, a truly great school, which my bright Upper West side kid chose over an excellent specialized school.
Comment by anonymous — November 19, 2009 @ 11:32 am
#46 & #48: The Ed Opt formula is based on results of 7th grade ELA exam: 16% high reading range; 68% middle reading range; 16% low reading — that’s what’s printed in the directory and that has been the case since we’ve been following the scene. Students who score 2% on the test and list an Ed Opt program first on the application, are guaranteed a spot in the program. “Top two percenters” may be listed as such on their high school applications.
Comment by Insideschools — November 19, 2009 @ 12:29 pm
Re 36 and 45, I did hear that District 2 was named an experimental K-12 district under then-superintendent Anthony Alvarado some 20 years ago, when the districts ran K-8 and central ran the high schools. Alvarado got an exemption and started his own high schools that gave preference to his own district’s students. No other superintendents did the same. The DOE has continued the original arrangement with District 2, unwilling to upset the apple cart to the consternation of other parents citywide. The person in charge is apparently Liz Sciabarra, head of enrollment services for the DOE. Does anyone know anything more about this?
Comment by Sara — November 24, 2009 @ 2:27 pm
Read this article:
http://www.newschool.edu/milano/nycaffairs/publications_schools_thenewmarketplace_thirdarticle.aspx
and weep for the kids whose parents can’t help them.
Comment by Roberta — November 24, 2009 @ 3:58 pm
That’s a great article–everyone should read it. Thanks.
Comment by Anonymous — November 25, 2009 @ 9:30 am