High School Hustle: Despair, delight, decisions & delays
New York City is such a peculiarly competitive place to live that even toddlers may receive rejection letters from pre-schools, so you think they might be prepared when it comes time for choosing a high school.
At the tender age of three or four, however, they have some insulation, as it’s hard to imagine telling a potential nursery schooler: “Sorry, you didn’t get in. They weren’t impressed by your sandbox play.”
There’s not much parents can do to cushion the blow of first round rejection for city high schools, though. It can be a pretty raw time. And the stakes are ever so much greater because the supply of excellent high schools does not meet the demand.
Last week some 27,000 New York City public school parents and students got news from the eight Specialized High Schools that require a competitive exam and from LaGuardia High School which requires an audition. Decisions are due Feb. 23, and are especially complicated because those who heard from the specialized schools also found out whether they were offered a spot at a non-specialized school.
It can be hard for parents to keep in check their anxiety about second round results, expected in late March. Some 21,000 students are in this category (compared with 5,261 who got into a specialized school). They can wait it out and check out some of the new high schools that are opening next year.
In all this madness (and it is madness) there are real and legitimate concerns for parents and kids who have to make decisions about where they will thrive for for the next four years. An acceptance letter means some homework must be done in the next few weeks, including attending open houses, visiting schools whenever possible, and asking questions. (It doesn’t help that there’s a week long school holiday coming up!)
It may seem an embarrassment of riches to have a few excellent choices, but that is the case for those who are accepted to a specialized school (or even two if they got into an exam school and LaGuardia) and another school on their list. A student who got into Bronx Science or Lehman High School of American Studies may also have an offer to attend the excellent Townsend Harris in Queens. An aspiring actress who got into LaGuardia may also wonder if the strong academics and drama program at Beacon would be a better fit. Or perhaps a math-oriented Manhattan student may want to know if it’s worth commuting out of the borough to attend the large and well known Brooklyn Tech or if they’d be better off in a smaller, but equally rigorous, academic program at Bard Early College.
Also, every year there are hundreds of private school students used to small settings with lots of personal attention who are contemplating leaving their close friends and familiar settings (and saving more than $30,000 a year in some cases) for a much larger and equally prestigious program at say, Stuyvesant.
At an event last week, I had a chance to discuss high school choice with Randy Asher, the fairly new principal at Brooklyn Tech, who is happy to talk with parents and kids. Above, all, he suggested they come visit and spend lots of time observing and asking questions. Asher urges parents to think carefully before committing their child to a long commute, no matter how prestigious or attractive a school may be.
I also met an exhausted student from Far Rockaway in Queens who attends the High School of Sports Management in the Lafayette High School Complex in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. He told me his commute can be as long as two hours and forty-five minutes – one way!
I couldn’t understand his choice. The student told me that he and his mother had no idea the commute would take so long.
In the coming weeks, accepted students will be invited to open houses and will have a chance, with their parents, to ask lots of questions. Measuring the commute time is essential. If possible, you and your child should try out the commute by taking the train (or bus) at the same time he’ll be going to school. In the meantime, learn as much as possible from students, other parents, principals, and teachers. Attend a concert, play, or sports events. Make lists of what is most important.
Insideschools would like to invite parents who have been in this situation before to share helpful insights.
For those who must wait until March for a answer, my sympathy. In my household, we have another year before facing high school applications for the second time, and I have a strategy that will only work for a very short time: Denial.
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We’re in the position you allude to of having a child who was accepted into LaGuardia for studio art, and Bard Queens, and is leaving a good private school in Brooklyn. She didn’t take the test for specialized schools, so she was fortunate enough to get her first choices in both cases (we put Bard Queens ahead of Bard Manhattan because the principal and faculty blew us away, because the door-to-door commute will only be around 25 minutes compared with well over an hour, and Bard Queens has a freshness and promise to it as a “new” school yet will be entering its 3rd year hopefully having made it through its “birth pangs” — perhaps even correcting a few mistakes that may have been discovered at Bard Manhattan, though doubtless making some new ones too.)
Anyway… our bias is strongly toward Bard for several reasons — class size, academics (faculty), depth and originality of courses, personal attention, the fact that Bard is underwritten financially (somewhat) by the Bard College endowment (protecting against city budget cuts at least a little), and most centrally the sense that LAG is in a way a very high-end vocational high school. Our feeling is that if our daughter wants to seriously study art she can get a grounding in the Bard classes, but then apply to a strong fine art college — or wait till grad school. At 13 we just don’t feel it makes sense for her to close out her other options. I see LAG as making more sense for performers, especially dancers, for whom getting out of the box fast can be crucial, and many of whom may delay college anyway after high school in the pursuit of their performance dreams.
But. I’d love to hear counter-arguments in favor of LAG studio art over Bard Queens. Anyone who knows about either or both schools from direct experience, or reliable hearsay, and wants to share your thoughts, please do!
Comment by Bard Queens vs. LAG — February 8, 2010 @ 3:14 pm
One of the columnists at insideschools.org, Toni Bruno, is a student at La Guardia, and I believe that Liz Willen, the High School Hustle columnist and author of the post above, has a son there. Perhaps you could write to them. Or post in the forum. There’s a Yahoogroup, parentsofnyteens, mostly parents of teens in Brooklyn, with a few members with kids at La Guardia. I have heard many good things about the academics there.
Comment by Roberta — February 8, 2010 @ 3:57 pm
Response to #1 – it really depends on the child. Our older child chose BHSEC I over LaGuardia for art, and loves it there. That said, it takes a particular kind of kid to be happy and succeed at Bard – one who is really into school and highly self-motivated. There’s a ton of work, a lot of autonomy, and very demanding expectations. Lots of kids go from having gotten As in middle school to getting Cs at Bard, and some end up leaving the school. I have heard very good things about the honors/AP “track” at LaGuardia, and LaGuardia, being more traditional, may be a better fit for some kids than Bard – for example, I could more easily see my younger child at LaGuardia than Bard. But have your child sit in on classes at Bard, and go to the LaGuardia open house – when we visited we found it a joyous place – and see what feels better to her. Either is a wonderful choice. Also, I wouldn’t look at the LaGuardia studio art program in any way as like vocational school since the kids get a full academic load in addition to their art classes. We were told that 80% of kids who go to LaGuardia for art do not go in fact on to do art as a career, but that the portfolio they leave with puts them at a great advantage in applying to colleges.
Comment by anonymous — February 8, 2010 @ 4:38 pm
Can somebody please explain to me what category of school Bard is? I know the specialized results came out and that included those auditioning for LaGuardia. Obviously Bard isn’t one of these schools. But if Bard is one of 12 choices submitted on the regular high school application shouldn’t the results wait until the main round in March. Is there a separate application process for Bard? I don’t understand why Bard applicants are getting their results with the specialized test if they didn’t have to take it.
Comment by queensparent — February 8, 2010 @ 6:06 pm
#3–Bard is not a specialized school. If the child got in to a specialized school he/she also finds out what non-specialized school he/she got into, so that he/she can decide between the two. Then the school that wasn’t chosen can fill the vacated spot with a child in the main round of admissions.
Comment by Anon — February 8, 2010 @ 6:23 pm
#2, in response to “it takes a particular kind of kid to be happy and succeed at Bard – one who is really into school and highly self-motivated. There’s a ton of work, a lot of autonomy, and very demanding expectations. Lots of kids go from having gotten As in middle school to getting Cs at Bard, and some end up leaving the school.”
We are deciding between Bard Queens and Bronx Science. My guess is the workload at one isn’t going to be any more than the workload at another (If someone knows the answer to this, let me know), so that the number of hours doing homework isn’t really part of our equation. The question becomes–what is the kind of work she’ll be doing at both schools?
And which environment will she be happier in?
Using a metaphor, I’m imagining Bard as being like a small liberal arts college and Bronx Science as being like a large university. At the former one gets more personal attention, and the latter one gets more diverse opportunities. Neither is better than the other, it just depends on the student.
#2, you say your daughter loves Bard. Does she love the social life there as much as the work? Does she feel it’s a nice group of kids?
And a question about another thing you said–kids who got As in middle schools now getting Cs at Bard. Were these kids coming from challenging or average middle schools? is it just the kids who weren’t adequately prepared, or is it also kids from great schools who are struggling?
Comment by Deciding — February 8, 2010 @ 6:43 pm
Thanks No. 5. I guess I am confused because some of the comments on one of the other blogs on this site is that students are receiving emails from Bard indicating acceptance. I thought all results were through letters with the specialized results and that is what I don’t understand. Is Bard only sending email acceptances to those that took the specialized test? I thought I read that the schools didn’t know who took the specialized test so then how would they know who was accepted to one.
Comment by queensparent — February 8, 2010 @ 6:46 pm
Ack–I’m #6. When I wrote asking #2 questions, I really meant #3. Sorry for the confusion. I swear that #2 post wasn’t there a minute ago when I was writing. (Egg on my face)
Comment by Deciding — February 8, 2010 @ 6:50 pm
#7, I am confused by that also. I was the one who wrote about those emails. Maybe everyone accepted to Bard received the emails? or Bard was told at some point which kids got accepted to specialized schools. Strange.
Comment by Deciding — February 8, 2010 @ 6:52 pm
I know families who got fat envelopes mailed from La Guardia before they received their official DOE results.
Comment by Roberta — February 8, 2010 @ 6:56 pm
Responding to #6, I’m #3, who used to be #2. My daughter really likes the kids at Bard. She says it’s the most diverse school she’s ever been to, and the kids are nice, interesting and supportive – not cookie-cutter kids. And not competitive with each other. As far as grades go, no, it’s not just the kids coming from so-so middle schools who aren’t getting straight As. The expectations are quite high and there doesn’t seem to be any grade inflation.
Comment by anonymous — February 8, 2010 @ 10:24 pm
I’m a senior instrumental major at Laguardia and would be happy to answer any questions. feel free to email me at toni@taty.org. I also have friends in the other majors that I can put anyone in touch with.
Comment by student — February 8, 2010 @ 10:44 pm
As the parent of a sophomore at LaG I’ll vouch for the academics, particularly in the Honors classes. My son it working hard and loving school!
His sister got into The High School of American Studies at Lehman, and is thrilled as are we. Any parents who’d care to share the first-hand experiences of their students there?
Comment by LaGuardia parent — February 9, 2010 @ 12:25 pm
I wonder if the DOE will keep or make public stats on how many students accepted to the spec. schools came from private schools. I hear the # of applicants from them was really high this year. The number of commenters on this and other blogs who identify their children as coming from private schools seems to be significant. If so it is raising a whole set of socio-economic issues and pressures on the families of public school children who may be competing (at a possible disadvantage) with families who have more resources for test prep, tutoring, coaching for auditions, outside music lessons, etc.
Comment by anon — February 9, 2010 @ 5:15 pm
I agree, 14, that it just doesn’t seem fair. But our children at private schools are NY’s children also, and they are allowed a free public education as well. Many of us can no longer afford private school, or need to save for college. Should we not let our kids do test prep/coaching/etc. to even the odds in favor of those who can’t afford it? (and there are also plenty of kids getting tutoring/coaching who aren’t in private schools)
Comment by Going public — February 9, 2010 @ 9:41 pm
La Guardia parent,
Tonight I ran into a friend of my daughter’s who is a freshman at Lehman. She went to the same elementary and middle school as my daughter. She is very happy there.
Write to me (robyf@aol.com) and I’ll dig up her mother’s email.
Comment by Roberta — February 9, 2010 @ 9:53 pm
To #16, thanks so much! We went to HSAS’s open house last night and fell in love all over again. The decision is made. Our daughter’s thrilled and so are we. We saw sophomores and juniors there who we know and they all had great things to say, so we’re resting easy.
To #14 – as a private school parent, please don’t imagine all public school students to have never had the opportunities you describe. Who do you think has been getting into and being successful at Stuy, LaGuardia, Bronx Science and all the other great public schools all these years? Kids from my children’s middle school regularly score well over 600 on the SHSAT and play instruments, sing and do art to a high level and gain admittance to LaGuardia. Not to mention being on championship debate teams, chess teams, sports teams, etc. We’re the fortunate public school families, no doubt, but please do not be deluded into thinking that an influx of private school kids vying for HS seats will impact the results to a significant extent.
Comment by LaGuardia parent — February 10, 2010 @ 11:18 am
I agree with #17. My daughter and her circle of friends from MS51 (an arts-based program) a couple of years ago almost all got the trifecta — acceptances to one of the specialized schools / LaGuardia / and one of the top non-specialized schools. My son — a straight A student in a private school — did not get into any of the specialized schools and must wait until the end of March for news.
Comment by apbklyn — February 24, 2010 @ 3:59 pm